Christs Two natures are what?

[revrandy]

IB,,,

What I find in your posts is that you limit God to what men think...and not what the Bible Says....

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

Oneness is not beautiful, as it fails the test of true Christianity which is to affirm that the Son of God possesses every divine attribute; eternity, creatorship, omnipresence, immutability, omnipotence.

You limit the Godhead and even your own thinking in what you say. The PERSON of the Son is the same PERSON as the Father. THAT IS WHY THE SON POSSESSES all the attributes of the Father. It's that simple.

And anyone who says the ONENESS is not beautiful has a weird urge for polytheism, in my opinion.

Most cults such as the Mormons will call Jesus …. by the name ‘GOD.’ However all cults will either redefine the term; ‘Jesus’ or ‘God.’ So Mormons blaspheme the former by claiming that millions of Mormons will also one day become Gods too. Jehovah’s Witnesses blaspheme the latter by redefining the word ‘God’ to mean a lesser deity; the mighty and not the almighty God. Oneness exists in many different forms, but most commonly, it redefines the word ‘Jesus’ when applied to Christ’s deity to mean God the Father and then strips the Son of every one of his divine attributes so that they’ll claim that the Son isn’t the creator, isn’t eternal, isn’t omnipresent etc. This comes under the condemnation of John 8:24.

Nonsense. Learn what oneness actually teaches, and please cease making strawmen of our beliefs.

Mormons do not believe Jesus is the PERSON OF THE ONE ALMIGHTY GOD. JW's do not believe Jesus is the PERSON OF THE ONE ALMIGHTY GOD. Oneness teaches Jesus is the ONE ALMIGHTY GOD. You cannot get any closer to saying there is absolutely ONE God while at the same time saying that One is Jesus than the way Oneness proposes it.

Jesus' person is the Person of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. And therefore Jesus Possesses all the attributes of Deity that exist.

Your misrepresentattive diversions that claim we propose the Son does not possess all the divine attributes that can and do exist in Deity is really poor form, Bladder.

Anyone with a lick of sense can recognize that when Oneness claims the PERSON of the Father, and Son and Holy Ghost are one and the same, contrary to trinitarianism's three persons, it is saying THIS SINGLE PERSONHOOD demands that the Son have all the divine attributes of Deity that ever do exist, whether the Son existed when the Person of the Son did this or not. These attributes are common to Father, Son and Holy Ghost because ONE PERSON IS the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. How can you turn around and say the person of the Son does not have the divine creative attributes, etc., that the Person of the Father possesses if the Person of the Son IS THE PERSON of the Father? Do you not see the folly in such a wild claim?

When I was single, I was a painter and preacher. When I got married, I took upon myself a state of being that I had never experienced before. Same with God manifesting as Son. But I never lost my attributes of painting or preaching just because I began to live a married life. Similarly, the Son has all the creative attributes of the Father because they are ONE and the SAME PERSON. The husband was a painter and preacher even though the husband role I became did not exist when I was a painter and preacher beforehand. THAT IS BECAUSE all these roles are of ONE PERSON, Mike Blume. In speaking of ROLES, the roles are different. In speaking of PERSON, they are one and the same.

I doubt you are even TRYING to understand Oneness, Bladder, because anyone who reads our statements that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are ONE PERSON would implicitly know we believe the Son has all divine attributes that exist.

Now, tell me how RED is an apple.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by revrandy

IB,,,

What I find in your posts is that you limit God to what men think...and not what the Bible Says....

BINGO!!!! I said virtually the same thing above before I read your response.

Originally Posted by revrandy

IB,,,

What I find in your posts is that you limit God to what men think...and not what the Bible Says....

Thank you for your insightful and graceful comments.

Originally Posted by revrandy

IB,,,

What I find in your posts is that you limit God to what men think...and not what the Bible Says....

The same could be said of absolutely anybody else, for instance a Mormon, Scientologist or a JW could say that of you or of me too, or of absolutely anybody else in the room! What matters is knowing and obeying the Scriptures, so I'd rather you took the trouble to shopw me from the Bible where I'm mistaken, there are too many people who can't do this and back away form Bible discussions promising to pray for Trinitarians like myself as supposidely we're not saved but at lost. they are entitled to this attitude, but the Biblical attitude is that of correcting erroe graciously as 1 Peter 3:15 commands; 'give to everyone an answer' and the context Rev Randy is an answer from the Bible, not feelingm, not sing songs, not emotion and not mysticism, if I'm wrong then God commands you to correct me from the Bible.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

The same could be said of absolutely anybody else, for instance a Mormon, Scientologist or a JW could say that of you or of me too, or of absolutely anybody else in the room!

That does not negate the fact that this is what you do. You are resorting to yet another logical fallacy that seeks to justify oneself by saying others do it too

Originally Posted by mfblume

You limit the Godhead and even your own thinking in what you say. The PERSON of the Son is the same PERSON as the Father. THAT IS WHY THE SON POSSESSES all the attributes of the Father. It's that simple.
.

OK if that's so will you please affirm the follwoing with me that;


1. The SON is Eternal, that he has existed as the Son together with the Father from before the creation i eternity (John 17:5, 24 re father & Son at verse 1).

2. The Son is Creator (Hebrews 1:2 ans Colossians 1:16-17 re verse 12).

3. The Son is Omnipresent (John 14:23, the plural verb 'we will' applies to both the Father and also to the Son).

4. The Son can do whatever divine attribute the Father can do, so in thei sense he is in no way infoerior to him (John 5:19).


I could go on MF, but I'll leave it with these four divine attributes. Rememebr that you said in your quote that the SON possessed these divine attributes. Don't use what i call 'the Jesus trick' and claim that Jesus possesses these divine attributes as God the Father, you used the word SON so prove to me that the Son is eternal, onipresent, creator and omnipotent. Despite our differneces, I ahve enjoyed reading your posts, which are thoughtul and well written.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

OK if that's so will you please affirm the follwoing with me that;


1. The SON is Eternal, that he has existed as the Son together with the Father from before the creation i eternity (John 17:5, 24 re father & Son at verse 1).

2. The Son is Creator (Hebrews 1:2 ans Colossians 1:16-17 re verse 12).

3. The Son is Omnipresent (John 14:23, the plural verb 'we will' applies to both the Father and also to the Son).

4. The Son can do whatever divine attribute the Father can do, so in thei sense he is in no way infoerior to him (John 5:19).


I could go on MF, but I'll leave it with these four divine attributes. Rememebr that you said in your quote that the SON possessed these divine attributes. Don't use what i call 'the Jesus trick' and claim that Jesus possesses these divine attributes as God the Father, you used the word SON so prove to me that the Son is eternal, onipresent, creator and omnipotent. Despite our differneces, I ahve enjoyed reading your posts, which are thoughtul and well written.

See I told you. This is just a repeat of what he has been saying and asking, despite being answered and addressed. This never ends folks

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

OK if that's so will you please affirm the follwoing with me that;


1. The SON is Eternal, that he has existed as the Son together with the Father from before the creation i eternity (John 17:5, 24 re father & Son at verse 1).

No, the person is eternal.

2. The Son is Creator (Hebrews 1:2 ans Colossians 1:16-17 re verse 12).

The person of the Son is creator.

3. The Son is Omnipresent (John 14:23, the plural verb 'we will' applies to both the Father and also to the Son).

John 14:23 is not speaking about the omnipresence of either Father or Son.

4. The Son can do whatever divine attribute the Father can do, so in thei sense he is in no way infoerior to him (John 5:19).

The person of the Son can do whatever He does as Father, because the PERSON is the issue.

I could go on MF, but I'll leave it with these four divine attributes. Rememebr that you said in your quote that the SON possessed these divine attributes. Don't use what i call 'the Jesus trick' and claim that Jesus possesses these divine attributes as God the Father, you used the word SON so prove to me that the Son is eternal, onipresent, creator and omnipotent. Despite our differneces, I ahve enjoyed reading your posts, which are thoughtul and well written.

The PERSON of the Son is the issue, and not the Son as such. The real essence of anyone is THEIR PERSON. And since the PERSON of the Son is the same Person as the Father, whatever divinity the Father has is also possessed by the Son.

Thanks for your posts as well. Can you respond to each point in my most recent longer post, as I have to your posts? Thanks in advance.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

No, the person is eternal.



The person of the Son is creator.



John 14:23 is not speaking about the omnipresence of either Father or Son.



The person of the Son can do whatever He does as Father, because the PERSON is the issue.



The PERSON of the Son is the issue, and not the Son as such. The real essence of anyone is THEIR PERSON. And since the PERSON of the Son is the same Person as the Father, whatever divinity the Father has is also possessed by the Son.

Thanks for your posts as well. Can you respond to each point in my most recent longer post, as I have to your posts? Thanks in advance.

He took a 7 day vacation. Maybe he just was not reading the warnings or the PMs, but that is no excuse :-)