The doctrine of subsequence

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Esaias

That's what his Wesleyan brethren said as well. lol

Originally Posted by Esaias

No it does not. If entire sanctification is a definite, instantaneous work, then it does not follow that it must be subsequent to anything. Subsequence may be true, but not because sanctification is an instantaneous work.

One must be saved before they are made holy. To say otherwise makes no sense. Can one be a holy sinner?

Originally Posted by Esaias

So God does not expect sinners to be saved from their uncleanness and filthiness and made clean, pure, and holy unto God?

Yes God expects sinners to be saved then He expects christians to be holy.
How could expect a sinner to be what he cannot be? In other words how a sinful individual be a holy individual. Before he can be holy he must do something with all of his sin.

Originally Posted by Esaias

I think you are splitting the work of God in salvation into component parts and separating them. I do not see the Bible doing this. There is no place where the apostles taught 'sanctification is a SECOND definite work of grace'. Why didn't they? Why did they not speak of sanctification the same way the 'second work' believers speak of it?

Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God.

Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.


2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.



Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Durham's teaching did not say sinners can be sanctified before being saved. His teaching was that justification, sanctification, regeneration, the baptism with the Holy Ghost, healing, all of it, was provided for at the Cross. (Who can disagree with that?) And therefore, each of those benefits from God are made available to the believer - the BELIEVER, ie one who has faith in Christ. And they depend on the person's faith.(1) Thus, a person who has faith to believe in God for the forgiveness of their sins can have it, but (2) if they also have faith in God for their entire sanctification, they can have that too. Thus he taught there is no NEED for a 'two step process'. While he admitted that most who experienced sanctification experienced it some time AFTER first coming to Christ, he taught this was only due to their lack of faith and/or lack of teaching and understanding.

Even here there is the doctrine of a subsequence second work. The only way to say that it is not second work is to say they are the same work.