Who Is The Holy Spirit?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Luke

Me and you have already went back and forth over this passage in the past on a different thread but all i will point out is that you are pulling out one phrase all the while leaving out the rest of the passage. If Jesus is simply a created being and not God and then none of us exist because as the passage clearly states All thing were made by Him so how could he be made if He made all things and if He was the one who made all things how could He have been made?

Yes, we've had interesting and productive discussions about this. And no, I'm not just pulling out one phrase, that's the reason I posted the verses subsequent to verse 15, they're essential to understand the passage. You bring up interesting, and important, questions. The same questions I've asked myself in my studies of the passage.

In a short answer, His God and Father created all things through Him after His creation. This would agree with scripture that He was the firstborn, not God the Father being the firstborn, but the Son of God the Father being the firstborn. Otherwise you have God the Father being born, not existing before His birth.

This image (likeness, resemblance) of God is the Son of God through whom God created His creation, and this image (likeness, resemblance) was incarnate and suffered death. It wasn't God the Father who suffered death, nor was God the Father the firstborn of the dead, His Son (likeness, resemblance) did satisfy those things though.

If the phrase "created all things" is applied strictly to God the Father then all the passage must be applied to God the Father. Using this approach, verse 15 is speaking of God the Father being the image of the invisible God the Father, which presents many many problems in the exegesis of the passage.

If it's your contention that verse 15 is speaking of God the Father we could begin there and discuss the entirety of the passage using that view and see if that works scripture by scripture.