Who Is The Holy Spirit?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Luke

My point is that if Jesus were created then it makes verse 16 impossible to be true.

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Who is the Him spoken of in verse 16? Whoever the Him is he did not have a creator because as the creator of all things He would have had to create Himself befroe he existed otherwise He would not be the creator of all things.

When you compare the colossians 1:16 with John 1:3

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Again He someone is shown as making all things and in fact it here goes so far as to say that if He did not make it then it was not made. Whoever the is in this verse cannot have had a creator if we are to accept this verse for what it says.

So who do you say the these to verses are talking about?

I say the verses are talking about Jesus and His God and Father, God the Father.

Who are you saying the verses, not just a snippet in the discourse, but verse 15, identifying the 'who' is that's the firstborn of every creature, and the following associated verses are talking about? Maybe we agree and just don't realize it. We've applied my view to the passage and it seems to be found lacking in your opinion, now let's apply your view and see if it fits the passage...or if it's found lacking also. Let's find out who 'him' is in the entirety of the passage. Who is the image of the invisible God and who is the 'him' in the following verses, including verse 16.

This should be an interesting discussion.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.