The Bible Is Secondary

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No thats not the point. The point is they did NOT simply just "follow the Spirit".

They HAD scriptures, the OT. And they had the words of the Apostles and their fellow laborers.

Much of the NT quotes the OT.

Yes, that's the point. They weren't following the Old Covenant, obeying the Old Covenant. They were in the genesis of the New Covenant and moving and preaching according to what the Spirit told them. The first few decades of the early church was Spirit filled and Spirit led.

The Church was established, very successfully, without one book of the New Testament.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Yes, that's the point. They weren't following the Old Covenant, obeying the Old Covenant. They were in the genesis of the New Covenant and moving and preaching according to what the Spirit told them. The first few decades of the early church was Spirit filled and Spirit led.

The Church was established, very successfully, without one book of the New Testament.

Yes they WERE following the Old Testament. No they were not UNDER the Old Covenant.

Like I already said, the NT quotes the OT a LOT.

2Ti 3:15 and that from a babe you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

The Church was established ON the Teachings of Jesus and the Apostles

Eph 2:20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,

Mat 28:19 Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the end of the world. Amen.

Joh 17:8 For I have given to them the Words which You gave Me, and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from You. And they have believed that You sent Me.

Joh 17:20 And I do not pray for these alone, but for those also who shall believe on Me through their word,

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes they WERE following the Old Testament. No they were not UNDER the Old Covenant.

No they were not. The OT covenant was null and void, not in effect anymore.

Like I already said, the NT quotes the OT a LOT.

Yes, almost 700 times some say. I've never counted so I'm not sure if that's an accurate number or not.

2Ti 3:15 and that from a babe you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Do you follow the Old Covenant? Of course you don't, neither do I. Neither did the early Church.

The Church was established ON the Teachings of Jesus and the Apostles

Eph 2:20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,

Mat 28:19 Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the end of the world. Amen.

Joh 17:8 For I have given to them the Words which You gave Me, and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from You. And they have believed that You sent Me.

Joh 17:20 And I do not pray for these alone, but for those also who shall believe on Me through their word,

We know that there was no scripture, no books, for the first several decades of the early Church. The Church didn't meet, read scripture, and then hear a sermon preached from scripture...for there was no New Covenant scripture. It hadn't been written yet. Did Paul teach in His church, of course he did. Did Peter teach in his church, of course he did. But they weren't using any of the books of the New Testament to do it....they didn't exist.

The only source was the Spirit leading and guiding, not a book with words on a page.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by seekerman

The early Christians didn't have a bible to use but were led by the Spirit. What's the problem today, can't people be led by the Spirit as those in the early Church?

The bible has caused divisions among Christians because most Christians would rather have a relationship with a book than with the Spirit of Good. Lay aside the bible for a few weeks, you may actually learn that God will speak to you personally.

To me, Sir, this is a dangerous concept. Anyone that promotes leaving either the Word or the Spirit needs to examine his motive. Many years ago, an old preacher said to me...The Word without the Spirit is formalism and the Spirit without the Word is fanaticism, but the Spirit and the Word is Truth.

jmho.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

To me, Sir, this is a dangerous concept. Anyone that promotes leaving either the Word or the Spirit needs to examine his motive. Many years ago, an old preacher said to me...The Word without the Spirit is formalism and the Spirit without the Word is fanaticism, but the Spirit and the Word is Truth.

jmho.

Ok.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

No they were not. The OT covenant was null and void, not in effect anymore.



Yes, almost 700 times some say. I've never counted so I'm not sure if that's an accurate number or not.



Do you follow the Old Covenant? Of course you don't, neither do I. Neither did the early Church.



We know that there was no scripture, no books, for the first several decades of the early Church. The Church didn't meet, read scripture, and then hear a sermon preached from scripture...for there was no New Covenant scripture. It hadn't been written yet. Did Paul teach in His church, of course he did. Did Peter teach in his church, of course he did. But they weren't using any of the books of the New Testament to do it....they didn't exist.

The only source was the Spirit leading and guiding, not a book with words on a page.

You are confusing God's covenant with the OT books. As I said they PREACHED from the OT.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You are confusing God's covenant with the OT books. As I said they PREACHED from the OT.

God's covenant was the OT books, you can't separate the two. Jesus introduced a New Covenant with many different different rules, laying aside the Old Covenant. The 'you've heard it said, but I say' stuff. They were following the Spirit, not the books of the Old Covenant.

A book doesn't lead, the Holy Spirit leads, guides, enlightens. You have to keep them in proper order.

[Luke]

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Acts 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Yes they did have and use scriptures to say otherwise is to deny these and other passages. Without scripture as our guide and standard of truth then we are left to trust to what one man/woman says they believe the Spirit told them. There must be a way to know what is true and that way is the scriptures. This was obviously true in the early church as well and those who used this method were commended by Paul above all:

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the SCRIPTURES daily, whether those things were so.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

God's covenant was the OT books, you can't separate the two. Jesus introduced a New Covenant with many different different rules, laying aside the Old Covenant. The 'you've heard it said, but I say' stuff. They were following the Spirit, not the books of the Old Covenant.

A book doesn't lead, the Holy Spirit leads, guides, enlightens. You have to keep them in proper order.

Joel 2 was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost.

The NT authors preached FROM the OT. You are confusing the Law of Moses with the Old Testament.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Luke

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Acts 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Yes they did have and use scriptures to say otherwise is to deny these and other passages. Without scripture as our guide and standard of truth then we are left to trust to what one man/woman says they believe the Spirit told them. There must be a way to know what is true and that way is the scriptures. This was obviously true in the early church as well and those who used this method were commended by Paul above all:

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the SCRIPTURES daily, whether those things were so.

Thank you but I doubt he will even read all that