Two Salvational Experiences

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I think the point of Seekerman's post is why are pentecostals not performing notable miracles (ref: Book of Acts) like the early church?
For instance, when the crippled guy in Acts 3 was healed, it caused thousands to believe the gospel.

If authentic notable miracles are being performed (like the lame walking, the dead being raised back to life) that even the media cannot deny, unbelievers will be believing in droves.

But since pentecostals are not being reported to be performing miracles like was recorded in Acts, they are no different than the Baptists who says God no longer performs miracles, at least notable miracles.

My take from his post.

Seeker, how'd I do?

Pretty good summary.

[obriencp]

Hello all and this is my first post after reading many many threads for a few months now.

I love the original post by Kept. I too, have been struggling with what is truth since leaving a OP church where I was raised. I don't want to get into scriptural debate as much of what i've come to believe isn't exactly popular on this forum. However, i do want to share in the "two salvational experiences" i've had.
1. Being raised in a OP church that started out UPC and later transitioned into a PAW church, I was baptized in Jesus' Name when I was 9. I later received the gift of the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues at a camp meeting. To this day, I still speak in tongues and cannot deny that experience (whether power to do more or as the external sign, i'll let y'all judge me). I knew that I was saved because I followed the core verses and was faithful in service and in giving. However, there came a time when I began to look around at how the church was failing and how judgemental we (I) had become towards everyone who wasn't a "3-stepper" (a new term i've picked up on AFF). Through much prayer, fasting, and study, i made the difficult choice to leave a church where I was the asst. Pastor and music minister. Doctrine WAS NOT an issue when I left. Although, looking back, i can see how the Lord was leading me into something more.

2. My second experience is when I began openening up to those i'd previously shunned out of fear. I began focusing more on what Jesus/God accomplished on the cross and less on what I did to recieve salvation. At some point, I realized the love he had for me and really and fully understood what was done. I had come to fully understand Grace and Mercy in a way I NEVER understood before.

I said all that to say this. I trusted too much in what I could do when I was OP (works based, legalist, whatever). I don't remember ever hearing much talk of mercy and grace, and was certainly never taught about Justification by faith. Ironically enough, I had a revelation of justification by faith a few months before I left and taught a bible study on it. I feel that even though some will say I was saved earlier in life, i also feel that i was re-reborn once i understood the finished work of the cross and his love for us.

There is nothing i can do to earn it, otherwise it's not, by definition, Grace. Thanks for the message, KeptByTheWord.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by obriencp

Hello all and this is my first post after reading many many threads for a few months now.

I love the original post by Kept. I too, have been struggling with what is truth since leaving a OP church where I was raised. I don't want to get into scriptural debate as much of what i've come to believe isn't exactly popular on this forum. However, i do want to share in the "two salvational experiences" i've had.
1. Being raised in a OP church that started out UPC and later transitioned into a PAW church, I was baptized in Jesus' Name when I was 9. I later received the gift of the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues at a camp meeting. To this day, I still speak in tongues and cannot deny that experience (whether power to do more or as the external sign, i'll let y'all judge me). I knew that I was saved because I followed the core verses and was faithful in service and in giving. However, there came a time when I began to look around at how the church was failing and how judgemental we (I) had become towards everyone who wasn't a "3-stepper" (a new term i've picked up on AFF). Through much prayer, fasting, and study, i made the difficult choice to leave a church where I was the asst. Pastor and music minister. Doctrine WAS NOT an issue when I left. Although, looking back, i can see how the Lord was leading me into something more.

2. My second experience is when I began openening up to those i'd previously shunned out of fear. I began focusing more on what Jesus/God accomplished on the cross and less on what I did to recieve salvation. At some point, I realized the love he had for me and really and fully understood what was done. I had come to fully understand Grace and Mercy in a way I NEVER understood before.

I said all that to say this. I trusted too much in what I could do when I was OP (works based, legalist, whatever). I don't remember ever hearing much talk of mercy and grace, and was certainly never taught about Justification by faith. Ironically enough, I had a revelation of justification by faith a few months before I left and taught a bible study on it. I feel that even though some will say I was saved earlier in life, i also feel that i was re-reborn once i understood the finished work of the cross and his love for us.

There is nothing i can do to earn it, otherwise it's not, by definition, Grace. Thanks for the message, KeptByTheWord.

Welcome to the AFF this place is quite the zoo but at the core is a group of people that if I needed prayer would ask them to ring the throne room of heaven in behalf.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by obriencp

Hello all and this is my first post after reading many many threads for a few months now.

I love the original post by Kept. I too, have been struggling with what is truth since leaving a OP church where I was raised. I don't want to get into scriptural debate as much of what i've come to believe isn't exactly popular on this forum. However, i do want to share in the "two salvational experiences" i've had.
1. Being raised in a OP church that started out UPC and later transitioned into a PAW church, I was baptized in Jesus' Name when I was 9. I later received the gift of the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues at a camp meeting. To this day, I still speak in tongues and cannot deny that experience (whether power to do more or as the external sign, i'll let y'all judge me). I knew that I was saved because I followed the core verses and was faithful in service and in giving. However, there came a time when I began to look around at how the church was failing and how judgemental we (I) had become towards everyone who wasn't a "3-stepper" (a new term i've picked up on AFF). Through much prayer, fasting, and study, i made the difficult choice to leave a church where I was the asst. Pastor and music minister. Doctrine WAS NOT an issue when I left. Although, looking back, i can see how the Lord was leading me into something more.

2. My second experience is when I began openening up to those i'd previously shunned out of fear. I began focusing more on what Jesus/God accomplished on the cross and less on what I did to recieve salvation. At some point, I realized the love he had for me and really and fully understood what was done. I had come to fully understand Grace and Mercy in a way I NEVER understood before.

I said all that to say this. I trusted too much in what I could do when I was OP (works based, legalist, whatever). I don't remember ever hearing much talk of mercy and grace, and was certainly never taught about Justification by faith. Ironically enough, I had a revelation of justification by faith a few months before I left and taught a bible study on it. I feel that even though some will say I was saved earlier in life, i also feel that i was re-reborn once i understood the finished work of the cross and his love for us.

There is nothing i can do to earn it, otherwise it's not, by definition, Grace. Thanks for the message, KeptByTheWord.

Thank you for sharing your journey with us, and I personally would like to welcome you to AFF, even though it gets a little crazy around here at times. Feel free to chime and share your thoughts with us!

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by obriencp

Hello all and this is my first post after reading many many threads for a few months now.

I love the original post by Kept. I too, have been struggling with what is truth since leaving a OP church where I was raised. I don't want to get into scriptural debate as much of what i've come to believe isn't exactly popular on this forum. However, i do want to share in the "two salvational experiences" i've had.
1. Being raised in a OP church that started out UPC and later transitioned into a PAW church, I was baptized in Jesus' Name when I was 9. I later received the gift of the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues at a camp meeting. To this day, I still speak in tongues and cannot deny that experience (whether power to do more or as the external sign, i'll let y'all judge me). I knew that I was saved because I followed the core verses and was faithful in service and in giving. However, there came a time when I began to look around at how the church was failing and how judgemental we (I) had become towards everyone who wasn't a "3-stepper" (a new term i've picked up on AFF). Through much prayer, fasting, and study, i made the difficult choice to leave a church where I was the asst. Pastor and music minister. Doctrine WAS NOT an issue when I left. Although, looking back, i can see how the Lord was leading me into something more.

2. My second experience is when I began openening up to those i'd previously shunned out of fear. I began focusing more on what Jesus/God accomplished on the cross and less on what I did to recieve salvation. At some point, I realized the love he had for me and really and fully understood what was done. I had come to fully understand Grace and Mercy in a way I NEVER understood before.

I said all that to say this. I trusted too much in what I could do when I was OP (works based, legalist, whatever). I don't remember ever hearing much talk of mercy and grace, and was certainly never taught about Justification by faith. Ironically enough, I had a revelation of justification by faith a few months before I left and taught a bible study on it. I feel that even though some will say I was saved earlier in life, i also feel that i was re-reborn once i understood the finished work of the cross and his love for us.

There is nothing i can do to earn it, otherwise it's not, by definition, Grace. Thanks for the message, KeptByTheWord.

Yep, that's the path, a heart after God, to know Him as He really is, and He is "showing up" in your understanding. Keep walking!!!

[votivesoul]

seekerman, most of your commentary is illogical.

Originally Posted by seekerman

One can surmise, editorialize and theorize all day long about the Apostles and one can claim they're Apostolic, but the ultimate question is concerning the signs, wonders and power that accompanied the apostles.

The signs, wonders and power is orchestrated and administered by God. No human causes anything supernatural to happen. To question a perceived lack in these things has nothing to do with us. It is a question of the sovereignty of God to do as He pleases in the world at His own discretion.

Sadly, the folks who claim to be Apostolic have no more signs, wonders and power following them than those who they view as non-Apostolic.

You cannot prove this assertion. First, there is no systematic way of even quantifying the numbers involved, secondly, no matter how well informed we think we are, there are close to 2 billion people claiming adherence to Christ, with those numbers changing daily. No one but God Himself can keep track of the signs, wonders, and miracles being performed by Him in all of Christendom.

'Apostolics' are just as sick and healthy, broke and prosperous, sad and happy as non-'apostolics'. Other than outward appearance, there's little difference between those who claim to have the truth and those who do not follow the 'apostolic' message.

This has nothing to do with anything. Suffering verses non-suffering isn't a sign of anything. It has no bearing on anyone's relationship to God, or of God's relationship to humanity.

What difference does baptism make, for example. Line up 100 people and you'll find generally the same life issues in those 100 be they 'apostolic' or Baptist or Mormon, doesn't matter how they're baptized. There will be very little difference in their life experiences. Everybody gets sick, some get well, some have more financial problems than the others, some have relatively successful lives, others struggle.

This has nothing to do with baptism. This is merely what human life is and entails. You could take 100 muslims who deny Jesus is the Son of God and find the same life issues among them. So what? Some are wealthy, some are poor, some are whatever. Being muslim has no bearing.

The 'apostolics' claim to have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth as compared to non-'apostolics'. The truth is, the 'apostolics' are no different than the non-'apostolics'...

The Apostolics that you mean here are vastly different in doctrine.

...and the 'apostolics' do not produce anything resembling the power and authority of the real Apostolics of the 1st century.

Again, an unprovable assertion. There are approximately 30 MILLION Oneness Pentecostals/Apostolic in the world today. You can speak for so many?

Over the last year, I've heard, from just a small sample, amazing testimonies of signs, wonders, and miracles, up to and including: people being raised from the dead (with evidence).

You know, the Book of Acts doesn't have thousands of miracles recorded in it, unless you count the conversion of thousands as being not separate. Otherwise, the notable signs and wonders were not a regular occurrence that happened dozens of times a day, so what we do hear of and/or have seen today is pretty much at least on pace with the 1st century, if not more so.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by obriencp

Hello all and this is my first post after reading many many threads for a few months now.

I love the original post by Kept. I too, have been struggling with what is truth since leaving a OP church where I was raised. I don't want to get into scriptural debate as much of what i've come to believe isn't exactly popular on this forum. However, i do want to share in the "two salvational experiences" i've had.
1. Being raised in a OP church that started out UPC and later transitioned into a PAW church, I was baptized in Jesus' Name when I was 9. I later received the gift of the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues at a camp meeting. To this day, I still speak in tongues and cannot deny that experience (whether power to do more or as the external sign, i'll let y'all judge me). I knew that I was saved because I followed the core verses and was faithful in service and in giving. However, there came a time when I began to look around at how the church was failing and how judgemental we (I) had become towards everyone who wasn't a "3-stepper" (a new term i've picked up on AFF). Through much prayer, fasting, and study, i made the difficult choice to leave a church where I was the asst. Pastor and music minister. Doctrine WAS NOT an issue when I left. Although, looking back, i can see how the Lord was leading me into something more.

2. My second experience is when I began openening up to those i'd previously shunned out of fear. I began focusing more on what Jesus/God accomplished on the cross and less on what I did to recieve salvation. At some point, I realized the love he had for me and really and fully understood what was done. I had come to fully understand Grace and Mercy in a way I NEVER understood before.

I said all that to say this. I trusted too much in what I could do when I was OP (works based, legalist, whatever). I don't remember ever hearing much talk of mercy and grace, and was certainly never taught about Justification by faith. Ironically enough, I had a revelation of justification by faith a few months before I left and taught a bible study on it. I feel that even though some will say I was saved earlier in life, i also feel that i was re-reborn once i understood the finished work of the cross and his love for us.

There is nothing i can do to earn it, otherwise it's not, by definition, Grace. Thanks for the message, KeptByTheWord.

Welcome to the forum even though we dont always agree it is still a good place to come too and get some other perspectives even if you leave disagreeing.

[Esaias]

If miracles happened all the time, they wouldn't be miracles, they'd be commonles.