Law was an impossible system to keep

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

'Will power' is not in chapter 7. 'Will' however is. I think we are using the term 'will' in different ways. Will can mean the faculty or ability to choose one thing over another, it can mean the faculty of volition (whether free or not) by which one engages in a course of action, or it can mean an amount of 'effort' exerted by determination against contrary motives ('quit smoking by sheer willpower' means one does not use additional aids to counter enticements or urges to smoke, other than their own determination not to smoke, for example), or it can mean to desire something.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
(Romans 7:18 KJV)

Rom 7:18 ???? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ??????, ?????? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ???, ????????? ??? ???? ??????? ???????????? ???, ??? ??? ?????????????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????????.

???????
thelo? ethelo?
thel'-o, eth-el'-o
Either the first or the second form may be used. In certain tenses ?????? theleo? thel-eh'-o (and ????????? etheleo? eth-el-eh'-o) are used, which are otherwise obsolete; apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138; to determine (as an active voice option from subjective impulse; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive voice acquiescence in objective considerations), that is, choose or prefer (literally or figuratively); by implication to wish, that is, be inclined to (sometimes adverbially gladly); impersonally for the future tense, to be about to; by Hebraism to delight in: - desire, be disposed (forward), intend, list, love, mean, please, have rather, (be) will (have, -ling, -ling [ly]). - Strong's.

thelo? / ethelo?
Thayer Definition:
1) to will, have in mind, intend
1a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose
1b) to desire, to wish
1c) to love
1c1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
1d) to take delight in, have pleasure
Part of Speech: verb - Thayer's.

As we can see, the word has a range of meanings, to be determined by context and usage.

According to the verse, and the other usages in the chapter, it is clear that 'to will' refers to 'desire or wish, to love, to like to do, be fond of doing, take delight in'. He says to will to good is with him, that is, he desires, wants, wishes, to do good. But how to actually accomplish that desire he does not know. From this we can see that 'to will' does NOT mean 'to choose' as an act of volition, because when one actually chooses a course of action they embark on it, they do it, because the choosing and the doing are the exact same thing.

But, we often say 'I choose ABC' when we actually do not, what we really mean is 'I wish ABC or I want ABC'. A person may say 'I will to eat cheesecake' but they do not eat cheesecake because they are concerned about their girlish figure. So they do not actually WILL it, that is, they do not actually CHOOSE to eat cheesecake, they simply desire to eat it, while also desiring NOT to eat it (or at least desiring not to suffer the fattening consequences of eating it).

When understood in this light, the entire premise that Paul is contrasting 'will power' with 'supernatural divine aid' falls apart. The contrast is between mere desire for something, and actually doing it. Which Paul identifies in the next chapter when he says the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk after the Spirit and not the flesh, and that this is the result of the death of Christ. Christ's death is what causes people to actually obey God. Thus, righteousness as a lifestyle is said to be imparted from God to man, it is the power of God working in a person both to will and to do His good pleasure.

The "want to", or will power is the same, principally. Paul wanted to perform the law but couldn't. His heart was in agreement with doing the will of God. That goes along with the last verse in Romans 7. As far his mind was concerned he did the will of God. But his flesh served sin... He said he was sold under sin earlier, too. Slavery.

All those verses show he had desire but not ability. How does this do away with divine empowerment? Why do you think Paul taught us to come with the understanding that we are are alive to God after he taught that only happens after we die to sin first in 6:13.

Paul wanted to obey law and could not. He also said in Galatians 5 that only so long as we walk after the Spirit do we not fulfill lusts of the flesh. This is what I am saying.

I see no difference between will power and wanting to do something or wishing it. In my use they're the same thing.

I will deal more thoroughly with your response later when I have the time. But I fail to see how your thoughts prove my proposition wrong.

To will is to desire. But desire is not enough. Then Paul said he served law of sin instead. He wanted to do good. Then he did evil instead. Note why would he follow up on willing to do good with saying he did evil instead? It's like I've personally experienced. Wanting to do good and the more I use natural energy to fulfill that, I do worse. I lived that stuff. He said he willed but instead sinned, indicating the attempt to do that good and failing.

Wishing to do good doesn't prove he didn't try to do that good. Context doesn't require him to add more than the reference to wish, because of its guiltiness experienced afterward that he indicated. How else does the next chapter and first verse make sense to follow this passage by speaking of no condemnation to those who don't walk after flesh busy instead walk after Spirit?

Someone who delights in doing something obviously tries to do it. So the delight concept doesn't change anything in what I'm proposing unless you missed what I am saying.

To say he would do good, but evil was present with him is to indicate an attempt followed by failure. Study "would do good."

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Walking after the Spirit is leaning on divine help of the Spirit. Grace means divine empowerment. Walking after the flesh is leaning on natural power to do it.