Help! Tormented dreams

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Interesting. I wasn't aware of what "low vibrational trauma" was either. I didn't compile the list. It was copied and given to me, I had saved it in Word.

You said your deliverance ministry leader Matt Burris gave this to you. Did you never read the list? Did you never investigate the claims? Did you not pray over each one to see whether or not the Holy Spirit would confirm these items as legitimate symptoms of demonization?

Or did you take it all on Matt Burris' authority that these things are all of them legit, without questioning or looking into things further?

From page 4, post #34,

The symptoms of demonic oppression can be rather extensive. Matt Burris, our team leader, had these printed on a sheet of paper as part of a small packet he'd give people who inquired about deliverance...

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Don't be disheartened. Follow the Holy Ghost. The list was given to me and I didn't even know what "law vibrational trauma" was. And I still don't know if it meant the same thing to Burris as what it meant on the website. I don't even know if the list was compiled by Burris himself. But the general points listed are good indicators of oppression. In all things, eat the meat, spit out the bones.

THEN WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU OFFER IT UP AS SOMETHING TRUSTWORTHY AND WORTH MODEST MAMA'S CONSIDERATION?

Are you operating in this thread from the seat of your pants, "walking in shooting in every direction hoping to hit something" (Page 7, post #67)?

Spit out the bones? You are playing armchair deliverance minister miles away from the situation on the ground, with someone's soul! Shame on you!

[votivesoul]

There is historical precedent for this line of logic. In ancient times Jews believed that an unclean spirit could be cast out of a person and imprisoned not only a heard of swine, but also into objects. They would bind the spirits to a rock and cast it into the sea, or bind it to something nearby and then dispose of the item by burning it. Some spirits were bound to location. This is the original thought behind the origin of the Dybbuk and how it could be confined or imprisoned in a doll or shoe box.

Originally Posted by Esaias

I rest my case.

Do you remember a thread from several years ago in which Aquila shared how he claimed that a simple prayer could given a person instant spiritual discernment over a person's life, from a common object?

In the example he gave, he said he was sitting with his girlfriend (at the time) explaining how all of this is possible, but the girlfriend didn't believe him, so he asked her for an item from her past, and she gave him a doll and so, he prayed a simple and gave her a spiritual download regarding her past?

That, even though several different forum members, Michael the Disciple being one of them, warned him against this kind of thing as occult practices, only for Aquila to rebuff all of his naysayers, claiming this was a work of the Holy Spirit?

For Dyybuk, see: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/dibbuk-dybbuk

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Do you remember a thread from several years ago in which Aquila shared how he claimed that a simple prayer could given a person instant spiritual discernment over a person's life, from a common object?

In the example he gave, he said he was sitting with his girlfriend (at the time) explaining how all of this is possible, but the girlfriend didn't believe him, so he asked her for an item from her past, and she gave him a doll and so, he prayed a simple and gaver her a spiritual download regarding her past?

That, even though several different forum members, Michael the Disciple being one of them, warned him against this kind of thing as occult practices, only for Aquila to rebuff all of his naysayers, claiming this was a work of the Holy Spirit?

For Dyybuk, see: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/dibbuk-dybbuk

Why yes, I remember that quite well. I tried to tell him he was dabbling with divination and claivoyancy type stuff, but like you said, he refused to listen.

And so, on reading his posts here, I rested my case.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Why yes, I remember that quite well. I tried to tell him he was dabbling with divination and claivoyancy type stuff, but like you said, he refused to listen.

And so, on reading his posts here, I rested my case.

Found it:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ight=occultism

Post in question:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...9&postcount=45

[votivesoul]

Esaias, it looks like the thread you recall is this one:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ight=occultism

In particular:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=198

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I rest my case.

Nope, you cherry picked a hypothetical that I admitted was only a possible implication.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Aquila, you wrote this in post #67 on page 7:

Then, on page 8, post #75, you wrote this:

How is it that deliverance ministers need to take a wait and see approach, which you claim can "take the most time", in order to confirm the presence of evil spirits by waiting for it to manifest if evil spirits manifest when Jesus is present?

Isn't that admitting that the wait and see approach, which can take a long time, means Jesus isn't present with or in the deliverance minister, and that they aren't "full of the Spirit", seeing as how they are having such a problem getting the evil spirit to manifest so they can confirm its presence?

Secondly, how is it that Jesus never had that problem but the people He has allegedly called into deliverance ministry do? What, He refuses to equip them with the same ability He had?

Those are fair questions.

There are a number of reasons involved. In deliverance ministry, the casing out of devils is a part of a witness and testimony to Christ's power, just as it was in the NT. This actually builds faith in Christ, offers believers victory, joy, and confirms the Bible.

Also, the deliverance minister seeks to confirm that he or she isn't being lied to, that the individual in question isn't simply having emotional problems, or isn't just of a fearful disposition. Also the deliverance minister desires to permanently resolve the issue without a doubt.

So, confirmation is seen as a valuable factor. Of course confirmation isn't always possible, leaving only discernment, or good old fashioned faith. All of us have seen the dab of oil, a prayer, and some assurance. Many times that works. But many times individuals continue to struggle under demonic oppression. Deliverance ministry seeks to permanently resolve the problem and bring sure deliverance. True deliverance ministry is not all about spirits, it's about setting captives free and changing lives through the demonstrated power and authority of Jesus.

The time it takes to confirm a spirits presence doesn't mean that Jesus isn't present. Nor does it mean that the deliverance minister isn't filled with the Holy Spirit. It simply means that the atmosphere isn't ripe to strike a chord with the demon. Jesus never had this problem, He was God Himself in flesh. We are human. Once the atmosphere is filled with faith, expectancy, and worship, the presence of God is at the level necessary to provoke the evil spirit. Even our church services can be bogged down, and need pushed by the worship leader to the place wherein the atmosphere is ripe to manifest the anointing. So, the notion is nothing new. The proper level of faith, focus, and worship is what must be attained. Pray through until the power and anointing is released by the move of the Holy Spirit.

The same question can be asked regarding healing. Jesus healed with 100% success. Why aren't those called to pray for the sick experiencing the same success?

Jesus was God. We are not.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Those are fair questions.

There are a number of reasons involved. In deliverance ministry, the casing out of devils is a part of a witness and testimony to Christ's power, just as it was in the NT. This actually builds faith in Christ, offers believers victory, joy, and confirms the Bible.

Also, the deliverance minister seeks to confirm that he or she isn't being lied to, that the individual in question isn't simply having emotional problems, or isn't just of a fearful disposition. Also the deliverance minister desires to permanently resolve the issue without a doubt.

So, confirmation is seen as a valuable factor. Of course confirmation isn't always possible, leaving only discernment, or good old fashioned faith. All of us have seen the dab of oil, a prayer, and some assurance. Many times that works. But many times individuals continue to struggle under demonic oppression. Deliverance ministry seeks to permanently resolve the problem and bring sure deliverance. True deliverance ministry is not all about spirits, it's about setting captives free and changing lives through the demonstrated power and authority of Jesus.

The time it takes to confirm a spirits presence doesn't mean that Jesus isn't present. Nor does it mean that the deliverance minister isn't filled with the Holy Spirit. It simply means that the atmosphere isn't ripe to strike a chord with the demon. Jesus never had this problem, He was God Himself in flesh. We are human. Once the atmosphere is filled with faith, expectancy, and worship, the presence of God is at the level necessary to provoke the evil spirit. Even our church services can be bogged down, and need pushed by the worship leader to the place wherein the atmosphere is ripe to manifest the anointing. So, the notion is nothing new. The proper level of faith, focus, and worship is what must be attained. Pray through until the power and anointing is released by the move of the Holy Spirit.

The same question can be asked regarding healing. Jesus healed with 100% success. Why aren't those called to pray for the sick experiencing the same success?

Jesus was God. We are not.

When Jesus sent out the disciples two by two, He gave them power to do just as He was doing. They cast out evil spirits and were rejoicing over it, until Jesus set them straight. They weren't God, so how did they do exactly as Jesus did, but today, Christ's disciples have to do something different?

Strike the right chord with an evil spirit? What does that mean? The devil is going to hunker down until we can drive it crazy enough to get off the couch and come shake his fist at us?

And what is all this talk about atmosphere? Does the natural environment which surrounds us have to be spiritualized before God is either able or willing to do something?

Atmosphere is not faith. Faith says "and the train of His robe filled the temple". Faith says "we are the temple of the Holy Spirit of God", therefore, the train of God's robe fills us, and therefore the "atmosphere", whatever that means, is meaningless, because it's already filled to the max with an omnipresent God, who is jealous for us, and dances and sings over us as His special treasure and peculiar people.

Prophets of Baal and other pagans who consort with demons need to work themselves into a convulsed state to make their gods dance. Our God commands and we speak, and IT IS DONE.

This idea that the presence of God is in some far off intangible place when we are one spirit with the Lord and God the Father is in us all, is plainly not the revealed reality of the Holy Scriptures. Remember Elijah's mocking, that Baal was on some distant voyage or laying down for a nap? That's how too many believers treat our Lord God, like He needs to be wrested from a siesta in some far off heavenly hacienda.

The Hope of Glory is in us, literally! So, where is the presence of the LORD God of Elijah dwelling? Inside of you, in your heart, by faith and Holy Spirit immersion. Trying to summon It from some other place like It isn't already present is an insult to the Lord.

[houston]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Do you remember a thread from several years ago in which Aquila shared how he claimed that a simple prayer could given a person instant spiritual discernment over a person's life, from a common object?

In the example he gave, he said he was sitting with his girlfriend (at the time) explaining how all of this is possible, but the girlfriend didn't believe him, so he asked her for an item from her past, and she gave him a doll and so, he prayed a simple and gave her a spiritual download regarding her past?

That, even though several different forum members, Michael the Disciple being one of them, warned him against this kind of thing as occult practices, only for Aquila to rebuff all of his naysayers, claiming this was a work of the Holy Spirit?

For Dyybuk, see: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/dibbuk-dybbuk

That does sound familiar.