Holy Ghost

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Did you previously believe in God, and that Jesus His Son rose from the dead?

Yes.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Yes.

Why? What made you believe that?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Esaias

How is it you can't see the utter irrationality of your thought process here? If you got "the Real thang" at one point how can it be fake? If it is actually a fake then by definition it isn't teh Realz™.

All I made was a classic argument by contradiction. A is true. A logically leads/led to something untrue. Therefore A must be untrue.

A = I received the same true Holy Ghost that everyone else received and spoke in the "same" true tongues that everyone else speaks in.

Since I received the same true holy ghost and spoke in the "same" true tongues then I shouldn't be able to speak in tongues in the same way that I can do now.

Thus A is false. The only 2 logical possibilities are either that I did not receive the same true Holy Ghost and tongues experience everyone else did or that there is no actual Holy Ghost and tongues experience as Pentecostals describe.

I am a witness that the Holy Ghost and tongues I received were the same as everyone else. Those I used to attend church with would also bear witness to this.

Thus the only remaining option I have is to view all the experiences as not being real.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Why? What made you believe that?

fear of hell, faith, upbringing etc. There were a lot more factors I could name if I tried.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Did you know practitioners of certain types of yoga experience glossolalia? And shakes, crying, powerful emotional catharsis, overwhelming feelings both emotional and physical (love, joy, electric shocks, heat/fire, wind, etc)?

I've heard that before. Ironically that's also how most Pentecostals describe their experiences with the Holy Ghost.

And isn't it interesting that the Bible never identifies emotions or sensations as proof of the genuineness of a moving of the Spirit?

Not really. It's more interesting that Apostolics do identify those things as a evidence of a genuine moving of the Spirit.

More importantly it wasn't the emotions that convinced me that the original was real, it was the many hours of praying for the experience and then finally speaking in tongues. However, after having experienced the real I think I have a pretty good handle on being able to compare the real experience to any other experience.

Speaking in tongues, magnifying God, rejoicing, prophesying, etc, are all listed as signs or evidences, but never PROOF. The NT shows people in undeniably "pentecostal" church communities who TURN OUT TO BE fakes, frauds, charlatans, apostates, antichrists, false teachers, liars, deceivers, agents of Satan, backsliders, sinners, reprobates, and even having unclean/evil spirits. Yet they, for a time, passed incognito in churches founded upon a definitely ecstatic spiritual conversion experience. How so?

Because they could look and act the part just as good as anyone else. But eventually, they get exposed, leave, get found out, or walk away, etc. Why? Because God does in fact prune His vine.

Or maybe they weren't just looking and acting the part. It's actually offensive that such is the default take of anyone that falls away. It's sad really that your faith is so fragile that you couldn't handle it if someone really had what you had and fell away. The bible talks about those that have the true genuine thing and fall away. Why is it that when confronted with such an occurrence that you are incapable of accepting it?

[TakingDominion]

Originally Posted by jfrog

And now we all know that it's true because if it hadn't been true you would have already denied it. So I think it's best you self reflect before you accusing me of being a liar or a faker or outright deceived. Understand?

You are funny. I'm thankful that if I do sin and confess my sins, he is faithful and just to forgive my sins.

I wasn't planning on calling you any of those things. I was going to suggest you find a good church and begin praying again.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I spoke in tongues. There was still a sense of doubt whether the tongues I spoke were genuine. You know, like maybe I just did it cause i wanted it so badly.

I haven’t stepped foot in a church in years and I can’t rememebr the last time I prayed. . I could speak in tongues right now if I desired.

Tongues prove nothing to me and I don’t think they should to you either.

That's not the Spirit giving the utterance and if that's what your referring to as you spoke in tongues like you did just make yourself do that. That's not the real thing, regardless what the charismatics say.

The reason you don't believe is, you never received the Holy Ghost for real. Thats just a deceptive spirit. You need to repent of false Doctrine, cuz if you don't it's downhill from here.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jfrog

fear of hell, faith, upbringing etc. There were a lot more factors I could name if I tried.

So, you weren't necessarily convinced it was true, you just really really hoped it was true. Does that about sum it up?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I've heard that before. Ironically that's also how most Pentecostals describe their experiences with the Holy Ghost.



Not really. It's more interesting that Apostolics do identify those things as a evidence of a genuine moving of the Spirit.

More importantly it wasn't the emotions that convinced me that the original was real, it was the many hours of praying for the experience and then finally speaking in tongues. However, after having experienced the real I think I have a pretty good handle on being able to compare the real experience to any other experience.



Or maybe they weren't just looking and acting the part. It's actually offensive that such is the default take of anyone that falls away. It's sad really that your faith is so fragile that you couldn't handle it if someone really had what you had and fell away. The bible talks about those that have the true genuine thing and fall away. Why is it that when confronted with such an occurrence that you are incapable of accepting it?

You missed what I was saying. By "looking and acting the part" I did not mean they intentionally tried to act like the others, I meant that to all appearances, they could not be distinguished from the others.

I know the Bible talks about Christians who have experienced the Holy Ghost and then falling away. I never denied that.

What I don't understand is why you can't seem to see the contradiction in claiming "the real thing is fake" or that "the fake stuff is real". Real chocolate cannot be fake chocolate. Fake chocolate cannot be real chocolate.

But none of that matters, really. What I'm curious about is why you seem intent on convincing us you are a genuine full blown apostate? What's the point? You don't believe in God anymore? And?

Or are you just really confused, and are hoping somebody might say the right things that give you some faith?

I really don't understand the point of your posts here.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

No agenda... you just dont have the goods thats all. You dont pray or go to church, you have no relationship with God. You need a good old dose of true repentance be filled with the holy ghost and be faithful to a good apostolic church.