“Just call me pastor, son”.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

You are misjudging my church. The Scriptures themselves show you they used no title before the name or to call a person “Hi Apostle”. Do you think that because they didn’t use titles they were doing “whatever they feel” as you are misjudging my church of doing?
Do you know there are UPCI churches where their Pastor thinks as I think and he teaches that they should be calling each other brother and sister instead of ministerial titles?

I mean no misjudgment to your assembly. I was asking a question, is there a sole elder or bishop in your assembly? Or is there multiple?

I have no doubt there are churchs that refrain from using Pastor, or Prophet. If they chose to call them Bro. and Sis. that's fine as well.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by diakonos

I think we’re making a bigger deal about this than it really is.

It’s one thing to refer to a husband or father as “pastor” in front of the constituency. A whole other beast if they’re doing it in the home.

I call my wife Sis. while I'm at the church.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

What’s wrong with calling your brother “dude”
Just kidding.

I think you believe that removing the title before name would cause a chain of reactions into disrespect. Be Scriptural brother and you will be fine.

Now, I heard at a conference a couple of the members in the church call the pastors wife First Lady. In my opinion that is unacceptable.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Now, I heard at a conference a couple of the members in the church call the pastors wife First Lady. In my opinion that is unacceptable.

I highly dislike that.

[shag]

Originally Posted by diakonos

I highly dislike that.

Why do you…should it be reserved for the president’s wife or some other reason?


I hear “First Lady” (referring to pastors wife) at least once a month in my assembly, and generally it comes from a visiting preacher that is “giving honor” right before he preaches.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by shag

Why do you…should it be reserved for the president’s wife or some other reason?

I hear “First Lady” (referring to pastors wife) at least once a month in my assembly, and generally it comes from a visiting preacher that is “giving honor” right before he preaches.

To me, it comes across as indirectly giving undue exaltation to the office of pastor, by exalting his wife. There's a difference between respecting the office and exalting the office.

[diakonos]

I know, right?

Pastor’s wife isn’t even an office.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Jito463

To me, it comes across as indirectly giving undue exaltation to the office of pastor, by exalting his wife. There's a difference between respecting the office and exalting the office.

I agree with you.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by diakonos

I know, right?

Pastor’s wife isn’t even an office.

And all along I thought the epistles were the apostles wives...

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Ephesians 4:11-12
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

I notice that none of the five fold ministry list is capitalized in the scripture you quoted. Yet you typically capitalize pastor and other “titles”. Just for your information, the word pastor is never capitalized in the entire Bible.

This reminds me of a trend that started (as far as I know) about two years ago in the main stream media of capitalizing the “ b” in black if it was discussing a black person. It was done to honor them. I suspect that is why you capitalize the “p” in pastor. The habit of capitalizing the “b” in black has spread to the “w” in white. Soon it will be that when you tell someone that you are a roofer, a plumber, or even a doctor, it will be capitalized, because, you know everyone deserves respect.

I think it’s ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Who is the "he"?
If Pastors, Teachers, Evangelists, Apostles, and Prophets are not important, then "he" should never gave them to the church. For perfecting the saints, for the work of the ministry, or for the edifying of the body.

The He is Jesus. Once again I notice you capitalizing the first letter of the gifts to the church. Do you also capitalize Piano Player? Singer? Deacon? Custodian?

I did some research. The word apostle occurs eighty three times in the entirety of the Bible. Of those eighty three occurrences only one is capitalized. So what is so special about that occurrence? Allow me to post the scripture.

Heb.3

[1] Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

The only occurrence in the Bible of apostle being capitalized is when it refers to Jesus. Also notice that high priest is capitalized when it refers to Him. It seems that you are elevating and exalting pastors and other members of the church to the same level of honor that the Bible reserves for Jesus. It ALMOST seems like blasphemy.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

But there is a reason why, 'he" didn't just say everyone will be for the work of the ministry, perfecting the saints, and edifying the body. Those offices, positions that Paul mentioned are specifically mentioned for a reason.

I think you may have missed something.

[15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.
[16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Brother, if you had only read a few verses further you would have realized that Jesus is the head of the body, and ALL of the other members work together to edify that body in love. You were doing scriptural surgery, taking this part and ignoring the other. It’s really important to use proper context brother.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I don't need to show you scripture that states, "Pastor Nicodemus" to understand how important it is being a Pastor.

Rom.12

[3] For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

I think you are in danger of thinking more highly of yourself than you ought.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Why didn't "he" just say, I give you servants? Because, that is a spirit we should all possess, yet not everyone is called to be a Pastor, or Prophet, or an Aspostle.

I Corinthians 12:28-31
28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Brother? Can you show me the pastor in this list? What gives? I see teachers made the list. But not pastors? Hmmm. What meaneth this?

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

No brother. All are not apostles. Some have other gifts. Some are narcissistic and think more highly of themselves than they ought. Some try to exalt themselves when the Bible call for humility.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Not everyone is an Apostle, (I know you don't like titles, but that's what it says) not everyone is a Prophet, (, sorry there it is again) not everyone interprets. Maybe God should've given Paul a proper title for interpreter, but he didn't.

God didn’t give Paul a proper title for pastor either. If he had it would have been capitalized. That’s what I’m trying to show you.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

The point is not everyone is called to be a Pastor, or a Teacher in the realm of that office. Now, you can probably teach with the best of them, yet that may not be your ministry.

*Red Highlighted*
Can you tell me what the "Best Gifts" are, and why would Paul say that?

There you go again exalting pastors. You really should do some research on the use of the word pastor in the Bible. It’s not all glowing testimony I can assure you. Capitalizing the first letter in the word when the Bible never does. What you are doing is common among preachers. They get in front of the saints and promote each other and themselves, then they begin to believe their own press. Next they feel entitled to everyone’s adulation and feel belittled if they are not praised. Sometimes I feel like evangelists spend more time praising the pastor of a church they are visiting than they do praising God. Obviously if they didn’t, they may not be invited back.