Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Funny....you use "I" in your posts too then you want to try to criticise me for saying "I"?!?!
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Prax,
First, you are posting so angrily that now you are taking credit for posts you did not even make.
I was answering Brother Strange, not you. Are you sure you’re following the posts?
oloroid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
What do I believe? What is it that you think I believe? See once again you are trying to shift the burden of proof. It's about what YOU believe and YOUR belief you are trying to impose on others here is that it's WRONG biblically for someone to use a gun to protect themselves or other innocent citizens and you have yet to provide bible for that.
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Prax, I did not start this thread.
It was started by another who listed quotes supporting the right for a Christian to use a gun against another human being. Again, are you sure you’re staying up with the posts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
You and EB both resort to an argument from Silence by suggesting that if the bible does not specifically say you CAN do something then you can't do it, but then that would mean you guys are in error even being here on the internet, or driving cars..we can go down a long long list of things the bible does not specifically OK.
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Prax, we do not have an argument of silence. The Bible specifically says that we should not return evil for evil, but instead good for evil.
The early Church was pacifist until the reign of Constantine. Constantine not only changed their carrying a physical sword, he also changed the spiritual sword he wanted the Church to obey. See
Ephesians 6:17 and
Hebrews 4:12 if you do not know what sword that is. Oh yes, by the way, THAT sword is the ONLY sword the Church was ever to carry.
The
Essenes lived at Qumran. They not only wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls, reportedly they also—like Jesus—taught and lived by the law of nonviolence. Prax, these men were
very pious Jews. They followed the strict letter of the Law. And because so, they
saw that the Law taught non-violence. This is what Jesus saw too. Remember, He said, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it,
THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS” (
Matthew 22:37-40). Jesus died while refusing to overcome violence by violence. Two wrongs never make a right. How can violence be used to eradicate violence? Jesus died maintaining His adherence to treating His neighbor as He would want to be treated. This is why Jesus taught the
greatest love is for a man to
give THEIR life FOR ANOTHER (see
John 15:13). Remember Prax, Jesus died for us while we were undeserving SINNERS (See
Romans 5:8)!
As far as scriptures, Jesus and His apostles taught non-violence throughout the NT. The entire Bible is about what man can choose to do; but Jesus wanted man to mature past the letter and choose as He did. This is why I asked about
Deuteronomy 21. No one opposed to what I wrote seemed to see that. But at no time do we have biblical record that any parent ever chose to have their rebellious child stoned. Instead what did these parents choose?
They chose love.
Remember the woman caught in adultery (See
John 8:3-11)?
The Law said she was to be stoned.
The men who accused her wanted to stone her. What did Jesus choose?
He chose love. He said, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her” (
John 8:7). This is what the Law was to do. Show that we have nothing defendable. Because so, before sentencing another to die for THEIR SIN, we must consider what that means in relation to what God desires. This is why the Bible says the end of the commandment is LOVE (See
Romans 13:8, 10;
Galatians 5:14;
James 2:8). This sentiment is also why Jesus commanded: “But go ye and learn what that meaneth,
I WILL HAVE MERCY, AND NOT SACRIFICE: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance” (
Matthew 9:13).
Prax, for you I will list some of these many scriptures that tell a Christian that they should be violent free:
• But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (
Matthew 5:44)
• But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, (
Luke 6:27)
• But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. (
Luke 6:35)
• But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. (
Matthew 5:39)
• But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. (
1 Timothy 6:11)
• Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (
Hebrews 12:14)
• Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; (
1 Peter 3:11-14)
• Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (
Galatians 5:19-24)
• Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. (
Romans 12:19-21)
• Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamor, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. (
Ephesians 4:31-32)
• Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: (
Luke 6:37)
• And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on. (
Luke 12:22)
• Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. (
Matthew 26:52)
• Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. (
Matthew 7:12)
• Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. (
1 Peter 3:9)
• Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. (
Romans 12:17)
• See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. (
1 Thessalonians 5:15)
Okay Prax, I have shown here, just like I have before, what the Bible says about this. I have nothing to hide. Here is my NT list. Now, where is yours?
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