It's not going to happen- where did you hear this ? There statments of faiths are worlds apart.
I do know that for the centennial year, to celebrate a shared heritage, they had a joint meeting at west angeles cathedral during the big event.
what it looks like is happening is, the liberal faction of the PAW is leaving. the more conservative group is staying. the liberals might have been for this merger but i doubt it would ever happen
With the "flirting" between the 2 of them I wouldn't be supprised if they merged and just didn't make issue over those things. PAW has had trinity preachers at speaking at their meetings.
Right but didn't they just move to stop that and that was why a major Bishop pulled out?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Right but didn't they just move to stop that and that was why a major Bishop pulled out?
Prax, Bishop Noel Jones is the Program coridnator for the nightly services. this means he invites the speakers. with him leaving along with one of the wealthiest men in the city of chicago none other than Bishop Braizer, It may not be a problem anymore.
I think the chuck Ellis and Horace smith were also advocates of outside guest but Noel JOnes is the one who had the clout to bring these guest in.
The one guest that the PAW put up the biggest Protest was Paula white. In 2005, their national convention was held in Tampa and PW was scheduled as a guest but their was such an outcry against it they were forced to cancel her
I think some on here come pretty close to blaspheming the Holy Ghost when they say that both speak in tongues but different dialects.......... Maybe I just read that wrong. Are you trying to TELL GOD HE IS WRONG by Filling hungry people with the Holy Ghost? Now I guess you want to play GOD!!!!!
There are multiplied millions that are filled with the Holy Ghost and live sanctified lives that have never heard of any Baptism in Jesus name - just as Johns disciples. Or maybe they have heard it - like I did but it was from Bishop Johnson or Shelton or someone that had mental problems and preached that if they did not baptize you - you were NOT baptized. Seems like it is coming to that in the Apostolic movement - Here let me LISTEN to see if that is the SAME TONGUE I speak in!!!!!!!!
I was filled with the Holy Ghost at the age of 5 and never did backslide and then to have Oneness people tell me that I did not have the REAL Holy Ghost because I had facial hair or some other ridiculous man made rules was preposterous. To say that one does not have the REAL Holy Ghost because they don't believe what YOU believe and because they were not baptized in YOUR pool with YOUR formula - makes you a judge and you will be judged with the very same judgment one day. How sad that some put the God of the Universe in a little theological box to serve only their little bunch. I hope you DO NOT get on TV and spew your sectarian elitist ideologies to others. Keep in the four walls of your little house and beat the tar out of those in there that don't do it like you demand they do. You all deserve each other.
I think some on here come pretty close to blaspheming the Holy Ghost when they say that both speak in tongues but different dialects.......... Maybe I just read that wrong. Are you trying to TELL GOD HE IS WRONG by Filling hungry people with the Holy Ghost? Now I guess you want to play GOD!!!!!
Whew! Nearly ("come pretty close") committed the unforgivable sin!
No. I have no quarrel with the Holy Ghost. But you are assuming the speaking in tongues, at least in these two cases, are from the HG. May be true, may not be true. How can we tell? Discernment? Whose discernment, yours or mine? They would give different results, almost for certain.
Or do you claim that all speaking in tongues is the real thing?
Do you claim that all tongues are literally of the same "dialect"? You do believe it is a true language, with a vocabulary and grammar, don't you? Or is there possibly more than one such language?
Quote:
There are multiplied millions that are filled with the Holy Ghost and live sanctified lives that have never heard of any Baptism in Jesus name - just as Johns disciples. Or maybe they have heard it - like I did but it was from Bishop Johnson or Shelton or someone that had mental problems and preached that if they did not baptize you - you were NOT baptized. Seems like it is coming to that in the Apostolic movement - Here let me LISTEN to see if that is the SAME TONGUE I speak in!!!!!!!!
I was filled with the Holy Ghost at the age of 5 and never did backslide and then to have Oneness people tell me that I did not have the REAL Holy Ghost because I had facial hair or some other ridiculous man made rules was preposterous. To say that one does not have the REAL Holy Ghost because they don't believe what YOU believe and because they were not baptized in YOUR pool with YOUR formula - makes you a judge and you will be judged with the very same judgment one day. How sad that some put the God of the Universe in a little theological box to serve only their little bunch. I hope you DO NOT get on TV and spew your sectarian elitist ideologies to others. Keep in the four walls of your little house and beat the tar out of those in there that don't do it like you demand they do. You all deserve each other.
Now you seem to be addressing Apostolics. I'll let them defend themselves, if they care to.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I think some on here come pretty close to blaspheming the Holy Ghost when they say that both speak in tongues but different dialects.......... Maybe I just read that wrong. Are you trying to TELL GOD HE IS WRONG by Filling hungry people with the Holy Ghost? Now I guess you want to play GOD!!!!!
There are multiplied millions that are filled with the Holy Ghost and live sanctified lives that have never heard of any Baptism in Jesus name - just as Johns disciples. Or maybe they have heard it - like I did but it was from Bishop Johnson or Shelton or someone that had mental problems and preached that if they did not baptize you - you were NOT baptized. Seems like it is coming to that in the Apostolic movement - Here let me LISTEN to see if that is the SAME TONGUE I speak in!!!!!!!!
I was filled with the Holy Ghost at the age of 5 and never did backslide and then to have Oneness people tell me that I did not have the REAL Holy Ghost because I had facial hair or some other ridiculous man made rules was preposterous. To say that one does not have the REAL Holy Ghost because they don't believe what YOU believe and because they were not baptized in YOUR pool with YOUR formula - makes you a judge and you will be judged with the very same judgment one day. How sad that some put the God of the Universe in a little theological box to serve only their little bunch. I hope you DO NOT get on TV and spew your sectarian elitist ideologies to others. Keep in the four walls of your little house and beat the tar out of those in there that don't do it like you demand they do. You all deserve each other.
Hey, AB, chill a little.
I don't think Timmy meant that the way you took it.
I realize there are some that believe that if the speaking in tongues didn't happen in a UPC altar and wasn't heard and verified by a UPC person, then it is not the real HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism). I would hope those folks are few and far between and that their number is diminishing.
Just stop and think about the thousands who received the HGB before Jesus' Name baptism came to light early in the last century. And only a minority of those were re-baptized in Jesus' Name. The figures I've read/heard are that there are about 500 million Charismatic/Pentecostal folks in the world right now. Out of that number only a small percentage have been baptized in Jesus' Name.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
I think some on here come pretty close to blaspheming the Holy Ghost when they say that both speak in tongues but different dialects.......... Maybe I just read that wrong. Are you trying to TELL GOD HE IS WRONG by Filling hungry people with the Holy Ghost? Now I guess you want to play GOD!!!!!
There are multiplied millions that are filled with the Holy Ghost and live sanctified lives that have never heard of any Baptism in Jesus name - just as Johns disciples. Or maybe they have heard it - like I did but it was from Bishop Johnson or Shelton or someone that had mental problems and preached that if they did not baptize you - you were NOT baptized. Seems like it is coming to that in the Apostolic movement - Here let me LISTEN to see if that is the SAME TONGUE I speak in!!!!!!!!
I was filled with the Holy Ghost at the age of 5 and never did backslide and then to have Oneness people tell me that I did not have the REAL Holy Ghost because I had facial hair or some other ridiculous man made rules was preposterous. To say that one does not have the REAL Holy Ghost because they don't believe what YOU believe and because they were not baptized in YOUR pool with YOUR formula - makes you a judge and you will be judged with the very same judgment one day. How sad that some put the God of the Universe in a little theological box to serve only their little bunch. I hope you DO NOT get on TV and spew your sectarian elitist ideologies to others. Keep in the four walls of your little house and beat the tar out of those in there that don't do it like you demand they do. You all deserve each other.
I agree with you Bishop, but I am not sure Timmy was trying to say what you gathered. What you said is true. I remember talking to someone years ago about another denominal church having a HG shake-down. The person told me that he doubted that they got all the HG cause "the Holy Ghost will lead you into all truth" and if you do not see the baptisim in Jesus name then you did not receive all truth so you must have not received all the HG. I had to laugh. I told him I disagreed with his assertion. I told him that I see where he might think that, but context was taken into account in his assertion. It is very funny that people think that if it does not happen in the UPC or a UPC church then it is not really the HG or it is some discounted type of HG. Kinda like a custom suit verses a off the rack suit. They are both suits, right?
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"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
Thanks, Sam and JT, but AB was actually closer to the mark than that, in terms of what I meant. I truly was poking fun, a bit, at the possibility that tongues, as practiced in these two camps, might be different and in fact not (both) genuine. I don't buy the blasphemy claim, though. How could it possibly bother the Holy Ghost if I don't happen to think that some particular instance of "tongues" is really him, even if I'm wrong? Maybe it would bother him more, if he is blamed for things he didn't actually do! (Say, being "drunk" in the spirit, animal noises, etc.)
But I would like your (all three of you, and anyone else who cares to) input on my post above, replying to AB.
And no hard feelings on the "pretty close to blaspheming" comment at all, BTW. He's entitled to his opinion!
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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