Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven
In case you missed the distinction there, let me make it painstakingly clear...
All I said was that there was proof of the existence in the belief in water baptism of the remission of sins, which in itself happens to be a key component of the water/spirit doctrine held by today's apostolics. I never said those 2 references were proof of Jesus name baptism. Never. I thought was very clear in what I said. (If you still don't see the distinction there, then let me know)
TRF
I've stayed silent much too long but feel compelled to interject here:
This only proves the doctrine of "baptisimal regeneration" practiced by the RCC and thus their stance on infant baptism. Nothing else should be implied.
I can tell by your posts that you are becoming a little vexed and that's not good. The "history" for your defense is just not there and the further your debate proceeds the thinner the ice you're standing on becomes. I would try to bow out gracefully and live to fight another day.
Raven
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Sorry Raven.. You're badly mistaken here. My argument is not on thin ice as you suppose. Just like I said to Pela, paying proper attention is key.
Indeed, the 2nd reference I quoted did apply to the RCC position on infant baptism; that much is true.
However , I gave another reference also.
Why don't you refer to that too instead of picking just one ? The first reference I gave, which was from the
Council of Nicea/Constantinople-381 AD stated belief in "one baptism for the remission of sins". This is a reference to
baptism in general, not just their stance on infant baptism, as you assert. (I'm assuming you know that the 381 Nicene Creed was
not in any way focused on infant baptism.) Your argument is very faulty here. Anyone coming into the church as as an adult would have been subject to baptism, so the reference to baptism in that instance
was not limited to infant baptism.
My simple point there, which he (and you also, apparently) seemed to be misunderstanding, was a simple reference to the fact that a key component of
Acts 2:38 salvation doctrine (i.e. the remission of sins via water baptism) was a widely held belief in Christendom, not just the Roman Church.
(And yes, I'm aware that many/most of the churches were already baptizing in the titles but that is/was not my point.)
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