Romans 10:9

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Do you drive a taxi?

No. I drive a Toyota.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

No. I drive a Toyota.

:-)...is it yellow?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Why do we need to quantify it all and comprehend it all and not rather just obey it all?

Why not both, Prax? I want to understand it and obey it.

I can patiently wait for God to help me understand these things. There was a time I couldn't wait on God and stopped trying to figure things out because I became frustrated. But now I've learned to be patient and grow in the knowledge of God little by little, precept upon precept.

[Adino]

Mizpeh said:

Abraham's heir was Isaac. He believed God for the promise of a son, Isaac.

Yes, I corrected my mistake a couple of posts later, Mizpeh. That's what I get when I post on the fly with too many things going on at once.

It was trust in God's promise which brought imputed righteousness to Abraham. When Abraham trusted God's word (which he received in a vision) God imputed his faith in that word for righteousness. Today, when we trust in the testimony of God (i.e., His word, the record he gave of his Son [1John 5:10-13]) we receive the imputation of righteousness as well. The word of God we are to trust in for the imputation of righteousness is Christ. Christ is the ONLY thing we can trust in for the imputation of righteousness.

You mentioned a thanks for 1Peter 3:21. Am I to understand you now realize sin remission must come before baptism? If baptism is "the response of a good conscience toward God" it follows that the "good conscience" must first exist in order to engender the response of baptism. The only way a person can have a good conscience toward God is to realize his sins no longer stand between him and God, so sin remission must take place prior to baptism.

[Adino]

Concering my post:

Btw, how a person can be in right standing with God and yet be in wrong relationship is beyond me. Yes, he can be under the umbrella of God's righteousness and still have faults, but his relationship is not something yet to be established. It is the right relationship (not our personal rightness) which brings the imputation of righteousness. It is a relationship established by a loving TRUST.

We come into right standing with God when we come into a right relationship with him by faith alone.

Mizpeh said:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Are you talking to me?

I was talking to Prax.... but feel free.

[Adino]

Prax said:

The issue that is being missed here is they were justified by FAITH alone not by works.

We are justified by faith alone before God who alone knows the heart. We are justified by works before our peers. Abraham was justified by a faith alone before God. Any action which subsequently brought justification was for the benefit of men who looked back on his life. If Abraham was justified by works (which he was) he had whereof to glory, but not before God (Romans 4:2).

It is this peer justification James speaks about. The visible outcroppings of our faith which manifest our heart condition to our peers. Paul deals with a justification before the Almighty. He deals with our declaration of right standing before God which takes place in the invisible confines of the soul.

Mizpeh and Prax, by placing faith in the word of God we set to seal that God is true.

John 3:33

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

Those who accept the record God gave of his Son verify the sovereignty of God by acknowledging the sovereignty of his word. Those who do not "make God a liar."

1John 5:10

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

An acceptance of God's word as sovereign is a reestablishment of Lordship. When man ate of the tree in the garden he chose to place his own word above that of God thus transferring Lordship to himself. The first commandment is not to have any gods before the Almighty. By denying God's word, man made himself god. We only transfer Lordship back to the Almighty when we again allow his word to be placed above ours. Our submission to his word is an acknowledgment of YHWH's LORDSHIP.

Righteousness is imputed to those who accept God's word/testimony. God loved us enough to send his Son to die for our sins. To reject the word of this wonderful testimony is to spit in the face of the Almighty. This is the only testimony (the record God gave of his Son) which will bring the imputation of righteousness.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Adino

Prax said:
We are justified by faith alone before God who alone knows the heart. We are justified by works before our peers. Abraham was justified by a faith alone before God. Any action which subsequently brought justification was for the benefit of men who looked back on his life. If Abraham was justified by works (which he was) he had whereof to glory, but not before God (Romans 4:2).

It is this peer justification James speaks about. The visible outcroppings of our faith which manifest our heart condition to our peers. Paul deals with a justification before the Almighty. He deals with our declaration of right standing before God which takes place in the invisible confines of the soul.

Mizpeh and Prax, by placing faith in the word of God we set to seal that God is true.

John 3:33

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

Those who accept the record God gave of his Son verify the sovereignty of God by acknowledging the sovereignty of his word. Those who do not "make God a liar."

1John 5:10

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

An acceptance of God's word as sovereign is a reestablishment of Lordship. When man ate of the tree in the garden he chose to place his own word above that of God thus transferring Lordship to himself. The first commandment is not to have any gods before the Almighty. By denying God's word, man made himself god. We only transfer Lordship back to the Almighty when we again allow his word to be placed above ours. Our submission to his word is an acknowledgment of YHWH's LORDSHIP.

Righteousness is imputed to those who accept God's word/testimony. God loved us enough to send his Son to die for our sins. To reject the word of this wonderful testimony is to spit in the face of the Almighty. This is the only testimony (the record God gave of his Son) which will bring the imputation of righteousness.

What about obedience? Doesn't it play a part in the plan of salvation?

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Why not both, Prax? I want to understand it and obey it.

I can patiently wait for God to help me understand these things. There was a time I couldn't wait on God and stopped trying to figure things out because I became frustrated. But now I've learned to be patient and grow in the knowledge of God little by little, precept upon precept.

If you did not understand it all would you still obey?

Deu 12:28 Be careful to obey all these words that I command you, that it may go well with you and with your children after you forever, when you do what is good and right in the sight of the LORD your God.

2Co 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Adino

Prax said:
We are justified by faith alone before God who alone knows the heart. We are justified by works before our peers. Abraham was justified by a faith alone before God. Any action which subsequently brought justification was for the benefit of men who looked back on his life. If Abraham was justified by works (which he was) he had whereof to glory, but not before God (Romans 4:2).

It is this peer justification James speaks about. The visible outcroppings of our faith which manifest our heart condition to our peers. Paul deals with a justification before the Almighty. He deals with our declaration of right standing before God which takes place in the invisible confines of the soul.

Mizpeh and Prax, by placing faith in the word of God we set to seal that God is true.

John 3:33

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

Those who accept the record God gave of his Son verify the sovereignty of God by acknowledging the sovereignty of his word. Those who do not "make God a liar."

1John 5:10

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

An acceptance of God's word as sovereign is a reestablishment of Lordship. When man ate of the tree in the garden he chose to place his own word above that of God thus transferring Lordship to himself. The first commandment is not to have any gods before the Almighty. By denying God's word, man made himself god. We only transfer Lordship back to the Almighty when we again allow his word to be placed above ours. Our submission to his word is an acknowledgment of YHWH's LORDSHIP.

Righteousness is imputed to those who accept God's word/testimony. God loved us enough to send his Son to die for our sins. To reject the word of this wonderful testimony is to spit in the face of the Almighty. This is the only testimony (the record God gave of his Son) which will bring the imputation of righteousness.

In other words, you agree with me.....

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If you did not understand it all would you still obey?

Deu 12:28 Be careful to obey all these words that I command you, that it may go well with you and with your children after you forever, when you do what is good and right in the sight of the LORD your God.

2Co 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

I already have obeyed what I understand.