JEWS!

[Revelationist]

Originally Posted by Rev

Baptism in Jesus name wasn't revealed until (Acts 2:38). How could you be a christian before that?

The word Christian simply means to be Christ like... besides, they were first called Christians at Antioch.

Acts 11:26
26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
KJV


Notice, they were called Christians, not claimed to be Christians... why? Because when they were being persecuted, they acted like Christ did on the cross, and they said to themselved, these people are like Christ, thus, they called them Christians... quite a difference from today isn't it?

[Scott Hutchinson]

I understand that we are not under the letter of the law,but we keep the principles contained in the torah,but the ceremonial aspect we are not under.
We are not under the law of sin and death, we are under the law of responsible grace.
A person from a background in Judaism who comes to a birth of water and spirit might do somethings differently than I do,but there are room in the church,for folks to have differing convictions on none salvistic matters.
Paul said one man esteems one day above another,and another esteems everyday alike ,but let each man be fully persuaded that what one does they do as unto The Lord.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Rev

This is what you said. What you said could be misunderstood as saying that the N.T. was not necessary to become a christian.

On this site you better say it and make it plain or they will be all over you.

Bro. Rev,

Perhaps we shouldn't take one statement and get all over someone.

That's why dialogue is so beneficial. Discussions back and forth is needed

until there is clarity.

Blessings,

Falla39

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

For Jews themselves it's not just a religious adherent. They have history upon history of being a Jew...even Atheists Jews call themselves Jews. So for many their religious identity is part of who and what they are born as.

I quoted a Jewish source that was explaining to everyone what a JEW is and what a JEW is not. I am getting this from Jews, themselves. And they say, not me, that a Jew is a religious term only. And they say it is far from a race of people.

That does not prevent it from becoming part of their culture. Their culture is very much influenced by their religious beliefs and customs.

Their culture WAS their religious beliefs. That is what makes Israel unique. There is really not much secular culture to Israel if any.

AGain that is irrelevant to the discussion. THEY view themselves as a historical people who are BORN into Jewish families. It's not just religion.

Sorry I disagree. They claim, themselves, it is just religion.

God made his covenant with a people...not with a religion.

The religion is God's covenant with the people.

Who and What they are today and in the past are Jews. They are the Jewish people. Whether or not you agree is not even the issue. That is how they see themselves.

That sounds different than what their own website about themselves says. I quoted THEIR website, bro.

Religion is part of culture.. That is why John said "He came to his own and his own received Him not"...they were his people. Even then they were not keeping the law...they were His people.

Religion IS their culture. Again, this is what makes them unique. There MAY BE another culture that is totally religion based. But I do know the Israelite culture is fully religion based. They just cannot be separated as, say, German culture is separated from religion in many aspects but not all.

For Jews who are STILL Jews and do NOT believe there is a New Covenant the Old Covenant is still relevant and still a deep part of Jewish culture today.

But that is due to their disobedience to God's direction. It reminds me of Christians who backslide and yet have incorporated into their families for generations to do certain things. Religion can lose its relevance with God, and can turn into culture. In THAT sense, I can agree with you. But since everything Jewish is rooted only in God and the Old Covenant, and we know God caused the old covenant to EXPIRE, not be destroyed, they are in error, whether they lost the relevance of their religion and made it mere culture or not. We have to look at it from God's eyes.

Lets go back to the verses I posted Mike....Paul was asked by James to take these Jewish believers to the Temple and show everyone that he is NOT teaching them to forsake Moses....great time for Paul to stand by his newfound principles.....

But all of that is within the parameters of Paul's explanation to the Corinthians that he did things only for the sake of reaching Jews. You even said that.

And again Acts 15....the Jews wanted the Gentiles to Keep the law...the decision was not "none of us should keep it"...but rather "The Gentiles should not keep it EXCEPT FOR...." and he lists some and the reason was simply because Moses was read in every city. Jews kept the law still. It would have been a great time to say "none of us need to", but because it was so ingrained into the Jewish psyche and culture they never told them they should forsake Moses. Paul never taught to forsake Moses. He taught keeping Moses will not save you. Even Paul himself had taken a vow and was to undergo a Jewish purification ritual.

He made that vow SOLELY to reach Jews. He knew it was not wrong to keep rituals, since they DO show shadow of Christ, so he would not be pricked in his heart against it in using it to reach Jews and deal with people who were not ready for the full understanding of Law's expiration. What was more important at the time? Kill them by forcing spiritual meat down their throats about the expiration of law, or use law as a means of removing any thought of offense from the Jews? I think that really was the situation, based upon what Paul said to the Corinthians.

It was a part of who they were. It had become not just a set of laws but a part of their culture and national identity.

That does not remove the fact that they were old covenant rituals that expire with the expiration of the old covenant. Where does Paul ever say that JEWS SHOULD KEEP THOSE RITUALS in the Church? Like I told another, I hear this a lot from folks, but the NT never says this.

To utterly forsake it all would have made witnessing to Jews totally impossible.

FOR THAT REASON, I agree with you. But THAT ALONE.

Even then the rumors were that Paul taught to forsake Moses. That made it harder and harder to reach Jews..

Jewish converts should keep the law IMO and go to Synagogue and witness to other Jews until they are kicked out. They should accept Christ but not forsake Moses so they can keep winning those souls

To win souls, alone, yes. But not for personal "cultural" reasons.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I didn't say an atheist can call themselves a Jew. I said a Jewish Atheist calls themselves still Jews....

They lost the meaning of JEW, then. Again, Jews themselves say these things I claim.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by big-larry

Gal 3:10-11, Nobody was ever saved by the law, if you are quoting the law to support any salvational issue, then you are under the curse. Jesus ended the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. The law is gone, ceremonial law, moral law, ritual law, the ten commandments, it has all been done away with. If you are trying to be saved by keeping any part of the law, you are lost! ...as two boys kissing.

I agree totally.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Rev

"The Old Testament fortold of the coming messiah, but they didn't believe it"

They believed in the coming Messiah, but they didn't recognize Jesus as being the fulfillment of the scriptures for sure.

But Jesus said that they did not believe the Law and Prophets if they did not accept HIM.

John 5:46 KJV For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But Jesus said that they did not believe the Law and Prophets if they did not accept HIM.

Bro Blume,

What do you feed Gladly? Your cross eyed bear.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But Jesus said that they did not believe the Law and Prophets if they did not accept HIM.

The Jews are still looking for a Messiah! So obviously they did believe that part of the O.T., they just did not accept the one that came.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Falla39

[/B]

Bro. Rev,

Perhaps we shouldn't take one statement and get all over someone.

That's why dialogue is so beneficial. Discussions back and forth is needed

until there is clarity.
Blessings,

Falla39

"I think you better qualify that statement"

Exactly what I said.