It's Either You or Me

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

All kidding aside, I don't think love your enemies has anything to do with defending yourself or your family.

Originally Posted by Rico

It doesn't, Baron, and they know that.

I don't think defending your family has been the disagreement here. The disagreement is that some of us do not believe you can blow someones head off while defending your family, and fulfill the scripture that commands us to love our enemy. One contradicts the other.

[Old Paths]

Talk about TWISTING and TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN MY PERSONS MOUTH!

I NEVER said that any AAF member did not have the Holy Ghost.

*You may act like it, wanting to shoot sinners, but I never said it*

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I don't think defending your family has been the disagreement here. The disagreement is that some of us do not believe you can blow someones head off while defending your family, and fulfill the scripture that commands us to love our enemy. One contradicts the other.

Bro. Matt, you are sooooooooooo RIGHT.

[Old Paths]

show me one example of that in the New Testament.

One verse, just one verse, where God's Church resisted in the flesh with swords and spears.


2 Cor 10:3-4

3 For though we walk in the flesh, we...

[JamDat]

If someone were to try and take away my wife's or children's lives or take mine away from them, then I would consider it love that I only wound or maim and not kill them.

If I would happen to kill them though it wouldn't be out of hatred of them, but love for my family.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I don't think defending your family has been the disagreement here. The disagreement is that some of us do not believe you can blow someones head off while defending your family, and fulfill the scripture that commands us to love our enemy. One contradicts the other.

Brother, the use of deadly force in defending one's family is not an issue that is specifically addressed in the NT. You are equating loving your enemies to include not defending one's family to the point of killing the perpetrator. I love my enemies and even gave you an example of such. I have more, if you need them.

I do not, however, love my enemies more than I love my family, plain and simple. My responsibility as a husband and father includes defending them to the death, whether that means my death or the one who makes the mistake of attacking me and my family. We are not talking about going off half-cocked and blowing someone's head off for picking on one of my kids or making inappropriate comments towards my wife. We are talking about the life of my family being in danger.

The Bible teaches that a man will reap what he sows. It also teaches that one who lives by the sword will die by the sword and that with the measure a man metes he will also be judged by. That holds true for criminals as well. If one thinks it wholly appropriate to break into the home of a God fearing gun toting Christian and loses his life because of it, then he has reaped the seeds of violence that he's sown, died by the sword he chose to live by, and received the judgement he deserved for not respecting the life of the wrong person. You can not chuck the principles of justice found in the Word in favor of another principle that teaches to love your enemies. You are incorrectly applying the principle to the situation that is being described.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Rico

Brother, the use of deadly force in defending one's family is not an issue that is specifically addressed in the NT. You are equating loving your enemies to include not defending one's family to the point of killing the perpetrator. I love my enemies and even gave you an example of such. I have more, if you need them.

I do not, however, love my enemies more than I love my family, plain and simple. My responsibility as a husband and father includes defending them to the death, whether that means my death or the one who makes the mistake of attacking me and my family. We are not talking about going off half-cocked and blowing someone's head off for picking on one of my kids or making inappropriate comments towards my wife. We are talking about the life of my family being in danger.

The Bible teaches that a man will reap what he sows. It also teaches that one who lives by the sword will die by the sword and that with the measure a man metes he will also be judged by. That holds true for criminals as well. If one thinks it wholly appropriate to break into the home of a God fearing gun toting Christian and loses his life because of it, then he has reaped the seeds of violence that he's sown, died by the sword he chose to live by, and received the judgement he deserved for not respecting the life of the wrong person. You can not chuck the principles of justice found in the Word in favor of another principle that teaches to love your enemies. You are incorrectly applying the principle to the situation that is being described.

No I am not incorrectly applying the principle. Jesus very plainly stated that we are to love our enemies. Is the robber that comes into your home with the intent to do harm an enemy??

[stmatthew]

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

I have been posting the above to show that our actions are to be non aggresive towards those that are our enemies. Here is "the rest of the story" as to why we are to act in a Christian way.


Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

No I am not incorrectly applying the principle. Jesus very plainly stated that we are to love our enemies. Is the robber that comes into your home with the intent to do harm an enemy??

If all he wants to do is take some property, then he can have it. If he wants to take the life of my family I am not going to let him do it. You are, in fact, misapplying the principle to the situation being discussed. There's plenty in the Bible concerning justice you are trampling over to make your point. Hopefully you will see that and realize the mistake in judgement you are making.

I have to call it a night, Brother. I am fighting to keep my eyes open. Gotta work in the morning.

[Old Paths]

Can you see it now? James, John and Peter in a western?

They are fleeing bandits on horseback, reaching over their shoulder firing off six shooters, sending them sinners to hell, one by one.