For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Wow, fortunate for Paul that he didnt post on AFF, he would have told it's after Calvary and there are no need for swords except to filet fish and slice bread.
You really need to go back and read this passage IN CONTEXT. It is speaking of the ministry, not the authority of this world. The sword is the Word of God.
Also, read on down in that chapter and you come to this....
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
We aren't talking about salvation we are talking about the principal of defending your self. The Lord allowed them to bear swords in old and new testament.
You have not come up with one single clear scripture AGAINST defending ourselves. We are not talking about killing-we are talking about the ability to defend ourselves, our families and our homes.
You really need to go back and read this passage IN CONTEXT. It is speaking of the ministry, not the authority of this world. The sword is the Word of God.
Also, read on down in that chapter and you come to this....
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
Sir you are wrong you need to read the scripture in context that is speaking of legal authority--such as the POLICE.
We aren't talking about salvation we are talking about the principal of defending your self. The Lord allowed them to bear swords in old and new testament.
You have not come up with one single clear scripture AGAINST defending ourselves. We are not talking about killing-we are talking about the ability to defend ourselves, our families and our homes.
You may have missed these posts, as they were a few pages back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stmatthew
I don't think defending your family has been the disagreement here. The disagreement is that some of us do not believe you can blow someones head off while defending your family, and fulfill the scripture that commands us to love our enemy. One contradicts the other.
You really need to go back and read this passage IN CONTEXT. It is speaking of the ministry, not the authority of this world. The sword is the Word of God.
Also, read on down in that chapter and you come to this....
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
Some bible courses would benefit you greatly my friend, why not ask some good men that have been and see what they say.
If the only thing the verse said was "love your enemies", then I would concede that you are correct. But the verse goes on and speaks of how we demonstrate that love in blessing the one cursing you, doing good to the one hating you, and praying for the one despitefully using and persecuting you.
Matt, I don't believe that verse is speaking about intruders and such, but to mean people in general. I deal with them daily.
I don't deal with intruders daily. In fact, I've never dealt with one at all.
Enemies we have every day. I believe that's what Jesus was addressing.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
They were still under the Law, before Calvary and the birth of the Church where mankind would receive the Holy Ghost power that iis nvested in Jesus Name.
I don't see any scripture for the above having any relevance.
But didn't Jesus speak about loving your enemies before Calvary, even while His disciples carried swords?
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Matt, I don't believe that verse is speaking about intruders and such, but to mean people in general. I deal with them daily.
I don't deal with intruders daily. In fact, I've never dealt with one at all.
Enemies we have every day. I believe that's what Jesus was addressing.
I think the verse is speaking of a principle to not just do good to folks that do good to you, but to do good to those that do not do good to you. "Overcome evil with good"
I think it is funny that if the dude comes in and says he can't stand our praying anymore and commences to start beating on us, we pretty much all agree that we are not to retaliate. But if he comes in and just starts beating us to rob us, we are ok to defend ourselves and blow him away.
So if its Christian persecution we hold our peace, but if its not, we take out our piece.
so see ya.
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