It is wrong to Ordain new Christians as Ministers

[Rico]

Acts 9:19-20 (KJV)
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. 20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Sorry, but Paul didn't sit around for 3 years waiting on permission from someone to start preaching Jesus. So much for that theory.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Rico

Acts 9:19-20 (KJV)
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. 20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Sorry, but Paul didn't sit around for 3 years waiting on permission from someone to start preaching Jesus. So much for that theory.

Rico,

I think he was refering to what Paul said in Galatians.

galatians 1:15-24
15But when God, who set me apart from birth[a] and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.

18Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter[b] and stayed with him fifteen days. 19I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord's brother. 20I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie. 21Later I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23They only heard the report: "The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy." 24And they praised God because of me.

[tamor]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Could not a novice or neophyte be not just in numbers of years but also in Character? Some people can be Christians for years yet still be immature

Great point, Prax!

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Rico,

I think he was refering to what Paul said in Galatians.

galatians 1:15-24
15But when God, who set me apart from birth[a] and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.

18Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter[b] and stayed with him fifteen days. 19I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord's brother. 20I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie. 21Later I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23They only heard the report: "The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy." 24And they praised God because of me.

Bro., I know what he was referring to . He's trying to establish some sort of Biblical mandate that someone wait a minimum of three years from conversion before they preach. I've already pointed out that Jesus sent out the 70, two by two during His ministry. Now he's trying to say Paul was in some sort of training for these three years, when the Bible doesn't say that at all. Paul wasted no time in preaching the Gospel after his conversion. A few days does not amount to three years.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Rico

Bro., I know what he was referring to . He's trying to establish some sort of Biblical mandate that someone wait a minimum of three years from conversion before they preach. I've already pointed out that Jesus sent out the 70, two by two during His ministry. Now he's trying to say Paul was in some sort of training for these three years, when the Bible doesn't say that at all. Paul wasted no time in preaching the Gospel after his conversion. A few days does not amount to three years.

I think most commentators agree Paul’s time in Arabia was 3 years. Now whether that mandates 3 years of training is a different story. Paul proclaimed who Jesus was at the Synagogue, but he did not enter into the ministry full time for some time after that.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

I think most commentators agree Paul’s time in Arabia was 3 years. Now whether that mandates 3 years of training is a different story. Paul proclaimed who Jesus was at the Synagogue, but he did not enter into the ministry full time for some time after that.

Baron, I am not saying this to be rude to you, but I really don't care what commentators have to say about much concerning the Bible. I never really have, and don't plan on starting now. The Bible says Paul preached Jesus in the synagogues right after his conversion. It doesn't specify what he did for those three years in Arabia, so anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's. When someone starts preaching needs to be left between them, God, and their pastor because everyone is different. Some people mature faster than others and some stay a novice for a long time. Besides, a preacher does not equal being a bishop or a deacon, so the whole premise behind this thread is faulty to begin with. Some people have no business in pulpit ministry to begin with, but that's a topic for another thread.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Rico

Baron, I am not saying this to be rude to you, but I really don't care what commentators have to say about much concerning the Bible. I never really have, and don't plan on starting now. The Bible says Paul preached Jesus in the synagogues right after his conversion. It doesn't specify what he did for those three years in Arabia, so anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's. When someone starts preaching needs to be left between them, God, and their pastor because everyone is different. Some people mature faster than others and some stay a novice for a long time. Besides, a preacher does not equal being a bishop or a deacon, so the whole premise behind this thread is faulty to begin with. Some people have no business in pulpit ministry to begin with, but that's a topic for another thread.

Rico,

Not saying this to be rude, but it is arrogant to discount the works of those who have made it their life to study the languages and customs of Scripture. There is much value in what they have to say.

You might want to check the meaning of the word "preach" in the context you quoted it in, I don't have the resources at work but usually that just means to proclaim and it doesn't indicate that Paul took a position of authority. I think you are reading into the word "preach" what we call a "preacher" today and that is a mistake.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Rico,

Not saying this to be rude, but it is arrogant to discount the works of those who have made it their life to study the languages and customs of Scripture. There is much value in what they have to say.

You might want to check the meaning of the word "preach" in the context you quoted it in, I don't have the resources at work but usually that just means to proclaim and it doesn't indicate that Paul took a position of authority. I think you are reading into the word "preach" what we call a "preacher" today and that is a mistake.

You are entitled to your opinion, Baron, as is anyone else. As for being arrogant, well, let's not go there this morning. I start taking calls in about 10 minutes and won't have the time to have that kind of fun with you today. Call volume has been crazy this week.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

When giving the qualifications to be ordained for ministry.. ;Paul forbids the Ordination of New converts.. those who have only been saved for a few years are forbidden from preaching... I had no idea until I read this scripture

I Tim 3:6 - Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

The meaning of NOVICE in its original - NEOPHUTOS - 1) newly planted

a) a new convert, neophyte (one who has recently become a Christian)

It should be several years after conversion before anyone is allowed to approach the pulpit according to Pauls teachings.

This is an area of extreme lack in many Spirit-filled circles including most OP organizations. Lack of mentoring, except by other prima donna leaders that perpetuate poor leadership.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

When giving the qualifications to be ordained for ministry.. ;Paul forbids the Ordination of New converts.. those who have only been saved for a few years are forbidden from preaching... I had no idea until I read this scripture

I Tim 3:6 - Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

The meaning of NOVICE in its original - NEOPHUTOS - 1) newly planted

a) a new convert, neophyte (one who has recently become a Christian)

It should be several years after conversion before anyone is allowed to approach the pulpit according to Pauls teachings.

Friends,

I think we have gotten somewhat sidetracked from the original statement made. In the opening post Dr. Vaughn made the statement that "It is wrong to ordain new Christians as ministers." This initial statement I would wholeheartedly agree with. As Dr. Vaughn pointed out the Apostle Paul gave warning concerning this and the destruction that can come from being lifted up with pride because of being elevated too quickly without a strong foundation.

Where I feel Dr. Vaughn has erred would be his subsequent statement, that "It should be several years after conversion before anyone is allowed to approach the pulpit according to Pauls teachings." I do not feel there is any scriptural evidence to build such a case, and in fact, as has already been pointed out, the opposite seems to have happened even in the Apostle Paul's case. I began preaching publicly at the age of 12. I was licensed at 20 but I was not ordained until I was 29.

When one recognizes the call of God on their lives, there is nothing wrong with them being allowed to preach the Word of God, while being trained and mentored in the Word by their pastor. This time of training and preparation is a proving ground of their character, and calling that propels them to ordination. IHO ordination is symbol of maturity in ministry and should be prayerfully administered. Just because someone has a Bible college education does not mean they are qualified to be ordained.