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11-17-2008, 06:19 PM
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Jesus is the Christ
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,484
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak
God made man as he is, he has presented Himself as He is, if between these two facts 99% of mankind is lost, how does that not equal a failure on God's part?
I don't believe God failed that dismally, therefore God is not finished with His creation, and tradition is seriously mistaken. It is called deduction, logical, and reason, which God gave mankind, as well as choice. Choice does not excel above God's purpose of "Savior of the whole world".
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Nevertheless, Crakjak -- the UR message waters down faith in the gospel --Stating that "fire'' will purify the person and thus borderlines another gospel.
__________________
If ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24
Mone me, amabo te, si erro
No real problem exists over the use of "The Name" in everthing else done in the Church. Why then should there exist great controversy over the use of the "The Name of the Godhead" in water baptism?
Kevin J. Conner The Name of God p. 92
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11-17-2008, 06:45 PM
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crakjak
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: dallas area
Posts: 7,605
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkstokes
Nevertheless, Crakjak -- the UR message waters down faith in the gospel --Stating that "fire'' will purify the person and thus borderlines another gospel.
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Not so my friend, UR is the fulfilling of the gospel, the very reason for the gospel. Just as fire in this life causes us to pursue after God, yet it is not the source of our salvation.
According to many, our obedience is what saves, not so, it is the love of God, thru Christ. The following scripture, previously posted by Antipas, is incredibly inclusive.
Colossians 1: 16 and 20.
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Absolutely leaves nothing for endless torture or annihilation, which would be for Satan, rather than God.
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11-17-2008, 07:51 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,888
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Interesting stuff, I can see how one becomes UR.
Like no one can choose God unless God first choose him????
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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11-17-2008, 08:50 PM
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Jesus is the Christ
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,484
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak
Not so my friend, UR is the fulfilling of the gospel, the very reason for the gospel. Just as fire in this life causes us to pursue after God, yet it is not the source of our salvation.
According to many, our obedience is what saves, not so, it is the love of God, thru Christ. The following scripture, previously posted by Antipas, is incredibly inclusive.
Colossians 1: 16 and 20.
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Absolutely leaves nothing for endless torture or annihilation, which would be for Satan, rather than God. |
If you take this scripture to its full interpretation, by your view even the devils will be saved.
__________________
If ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24
Mone me, amabo te, si erro
No real problem exists over the use of "The Name" in everthing else done in the Church. Why then should there exist great controversy over the use of the "The Name of the Godhead" in water baptism?
Kevin J. Conner The Name of God p. 92
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11-17-2008, 09:32 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Incorrect. God decided that MEN WOULD CHOOSE to serve Him or not. And He laid out the cross for all men to be able to be reconciled by their choice. If they chose not, then so be it. Nothing of God's plan failed. Failure is not in the equation at all if the blood COULD reconcile all by the choice of all. The choice of God was to have the blood able to reconcile everyone who willed. And this did not fail. You cannot remove the choice of man in this.
There is no flaw in my logic here.  |
Yes there is...the majority in Hell had no choice. The e vast majority of the human race who have been lost has never heard the Gospel. If a person hasn't heard...they had no choice. Plain and simple.
If it's based on choice, at the very least there must be an accommodation for those who have never heard.
If EVERYONE on earth heard the gospel and choose against it...then you'd have a point.
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11-17-2008, 09:35 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkstokes
If you take this scripture to its full interpretation, by your view even the devils will be saved.
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The Bible specifically states that the lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels. Man was never intended to spend eternity there.
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11-17-2008, 09:38 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkstokes
Nevertheless, Crakjak -- the UR message waters down faith in the gospel --Stating that "fire'' will purify the person and thus borderlines another gospel.
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I don't think it waters it down. If a person is going to obey the gospel...they're going to obey the gospel. If they don't want to no amount of Hell fire scare tactics is going to work. A UR believer can assure anyone that Jesus saves, and will save, those who obey the Gospel will be saved from God's wrath and judgment. A UR believer can also assure the most obstinate and rebellious person that...oh yes...oh yes...they too will one day bow before him as their Lord. They can warn, "God will break you, and it will not be pretty."
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11-17-2008, 09:43 PM
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Jesus is the Christ
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,484
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Antipas
You need to come out of the closet. It is obvious that you are a UR believer.
__________________
If ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24
Mone me, amabo te, si erro
No real problem exists over the use of "The Name" in everthing else done in the Church. Why then should there exist great controversy over the use of the "The Name of the Godhead" in water baptism?
Kevin J. Conner The Name of God p. 92
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11-17-2008, 10:44 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkstokes
Antipas
You need to come out of the closet. It is obvious that you are a UR believer.
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I'll admit, the doctrine is interesting and I've read quite a bit about about it. But I'm not UR I assure you. If you look at another post of mine you'll see that I clearly stated such...
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...4&postcount=29
I think that UR has some strengths that aren't being properly addressed. Straw men are being setting up and torn down and the doctrine itself isn't being adequately discussed. That's where I come in...I'll force the subject's deeper issues.
Do I wish it were true? Perhaps, what compassionate soul wouldn't love to see all of humanity reconciled to God?
When I was younger I ran with a crowd that was into the occult. One thing about Satanists...they rejoice that Satan wins the majority of the human race. They testify that even the Christian Bible affirms their victory. They don't care that a sliver of mankind is saved. They see that as a slap in God's face and their ultimate joy. The UR doctrine crushes their victory and demands that even they will one day be broken before the savior of all mankind. It's an interesting position.
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11-17-2008, 10:58 PM
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crakjak
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: dallas area
Posts: 7,605
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Re: If Physical Death is Final?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkstokes
If you take this scripture to its full interpretation, by your view even the devils will be saved.
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The devils, what ever they may truly be, were created by God and for God. Will they be judged, you betcha!
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