One of the Biggest Mistakes

[Neck]

Originally Posted by StMark

ILG, don't take my question offensively, I'm just wondering why you are concerned?? Y
ou are no longer in UPC so you don't have to adhere to anything UPC anymore.

In my growing up years, I would agree with you to an extent. We went to church ALL THE TIME.
Funny thing is, no one complained then. Everyone seemed to love it a lot more then they love church today.
Our nation might be a better place IF people went to church a little more instead parking their butts in front of
TV watching MTV and playing X box ( youth).

I don't think most UPC churches have too much church these days.
the long revival meetings have been eliminated. Long services are gone.
Friday nights are gone. many have ended sunday nights.
Wednesdays are more than half empty in many UPC churches. what else do you want??
Have church once a month for 45 min ?

There's 168 hours in a week. Our church for instance totals less then 6 hours a week.
that leaves our members with 162 hours for family time. I don't think that's unreasonable do you ?

Ever consider that maybe attending church together IS family time as well???

Without the standards many Charismatic churches are even more fundamental about folks living at the church.....

It's not stampede on UPCI time..

It's stampede on all the functions of church.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Neck

Without the standards many Charismatic churches are even more fundamental about folks living at the church.....

It's not stampede on UPCI time..

It's stampede on all the functions of church.

I think families have to balance church functions and outside activities.

IMO, Parents need to get their kids involved in some church activities.

they need to bond with the faith community. They need to go to camps
and youth functions.

Anyone disagree? Or should they only bond with their high school baseball team? spend hours and hours at school but only at church for one hour on sunday?

Has anyone else noticed in their neighborhoods, the kids hardly get outside anymore? It's so quiet. their all inside playing games on the computer instead of being outside getting good physical exercise.

[ILG]

Some of you don't understand the love affair I had with the UPC. I loved the UPC. I never loved everything about it, but I loved it. When I watched the Hoover/Meeks Wife Swap again the other day, again, I yearned for my unrequited love. My love for the UPC was almost entirely unrequited. It was like a woman married to an abusive lover that took and took and took and never gave anything back. Still, I tried to make it work. Until I realized that my lover had betrayed me. It was at that time that, in utter shock and pain, that I realized I had to leave. I agonized over this decision for literally years. Some of you don't understand the sacrifices I made to be in it or what I gave trying to make it work. You don't realize that I, as the only person in my family involved in anything remotely similar faced ostracism from my family for what I stood for and believed. Or that my husband and I spent years building a church. Or that we exhausted ourselves fighting for what we believed in.

You don't know that I loved standards. That I started living them out of a love affair for God and that I saw them as biblical principle but that, at 19 years of age, with no biblical background, I had no way to separate in my mind the love of the principles of the Bible and the legalism that was being fed me that slowly overtook me and confused me bitterly. You don't know that I tried to discuss my confusion with people and was turned away at every turn. You don't know that I spent hundreds of dollars on PPH books (maybe thousands) and spent days fasting and praying for answers that only came years later. You don't know that I was held at arms length without love and only demands from those who were supposed to lead me in God's paths.

Good grief, I didn't expect this thread to turn into this. I have tears in my eyes. I speak only with the hopes of touching my fellow human beings. With that always comes the risk of being misunderstood or ostracized. Anyway, I now know that I don't answer to man but only to God. Yesteday at work I ran into an apostolic woman. She had a hard time looking at me because of my trimmed hair. I don't blame her. I understand. I know she too, has a love affair going on and she loves her love. That's okay. But, not to her so much as to the lover that unrequited my love, I sang this song. I loved you at one time, but you have lost your chance. Please understand, this song is not to God, just to the church that didn't love me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmOrWG2FTbg

You Don't Own Me
Lesley Gore

(Words and Music by John Madara and David White)

You don't own me, I'm not just one of your many toys
You don't own me, don't say I can't go with other boys

And don't tell me what to do
And don't tell me what to say
And please, when I go out with you
Don't put me on display, 'cause

You don't own me, don't try to change me in any way
You don't own me, don't tie me down 'cause I'd never stay

Oh, I don't tell you what to say
I don't tell you what to do
So just let me be myself
That's all I ask of you

I'm young and I love to be young
I'm free and I love to be free
To live my life the way I want
To say and do whatever I please

And don't tell me what to do
Oh don't tell me what to say
And please, when I go out with you
Don't put me on display

I don't tell you what to say
Oh don't tell you what to do
So just let me be myself
That's all I ask of you

I'm young and I love to be young
I'm free and I love to be free
To live my life the way I want …
You Don't Own Me - Download Midi
1964

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by StMark

I think families have to balance church functions and outside activities.

IMO, Parents need to get their kids involved in some church activities.

they need to bond with the faith community. They need to go to camps
and youth functions.

Anyone disagree? Or should they only bond with their high school baseball team? spend hours and hours at school but only at church for one hour on sunday?

Has anyone else noticed in their neighborhoods, the kids hardly get outside anymore? It's so quiet. their all inside playing games on the computer instead of being outside getting good physical exercise.

You sound like Jeanie, that all she says about our kids.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by ILG

Some of you don't understand the love affair I had with the UPC. I loved the UPC. I never loved everything about it, but I loved it. When I watched the Hoover/Meeks Wife Swap again the other day, again, I yearned for my unrequited love. My love for the UPC was almost entirely unrequited. It was like a woman married to an abusive lover that took and took and took and never gave anything back. Still, I tried to make it work. Until I realized that my lover had betrayed me. It was at that time that, in utter shock and pain, that I realized I had to leave. I agonized over this decision for literally years. Some of you don't understand the sacrifices I made to be in it or what I gave trying to make it work. You don't realize that I, as the only person in my family involved in anything remotely similar faced ostracism from my family for what I stood for and believed. Or that my husband and I spent years building a church. Or that we exhausted ourselves fighting for what we believed in.

You don't know that I loved standards. That I started living them out of a love affair for God and that I saw them as biblical principle but that, at 19 years of age, with no biblical background, I had no way to separate in my mind the love of the principles of the Bible and the legalism that was being fed me that slowly overtook me and confused me bitterly. You don't know that I tried to discuss my confusion with people and was turned away at every turn. You don't know that I spent hundreds of dollars on PPH books (maybe thousands) and spent days fasting and praying for answers that only came years later. You don't know that I was held at arms length without love and only demands from those who were supposed to lead me in God's paths.

Good grief, I didn't expect this thread to turn into this. I have tears in my eyes. I speak only with the hopes of touching my fellow human beings. With that always comes the risk of being misunderstood or ostracized. Anyway, I now know that I don't answer to man but only to God. Yesteday at work I ran into an apostolic woman. She had a hard time looking at me because of my trimmed hair. I don't blame her. I understand. I know she too, has a love affair going on and she loves her love. That's okay. But, not to her so much as to the lover that unrequited my love, I sang this song. I loved you at one time, but you have lost your chance. Please understand, this song is not to God, just to the church that didn't love me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmOrWG2FTbg

You Don't Own Me
Lesley Gore

(Words and Music by John Madara and David White)

You don't own me, I'm not just one of your many toys
You don't own me, don't say I can't go with other boys

And don't tell me what to do
And don't tell me what to say
And please, when I go out with you
Don't put me on display, 'cause

You don't own me, don't try to change me in any way
You don't own me, don't tie me down 'cause I'd never stay

Oh, I don't tell you what to say
I don't tell you what to do
So just let me be myself
That's all I ask of you

I'm young and I love to be young
I'm free and I love to be free
To live my life the way I want
To say and do whatever I please

And don't tell me what to do
Oh don't tell me what to say
And please, when I go out with you
Don't put me on display

I don't tell you what to say
Oh don't tell you what to do
So just let me be myself
That's all I ask of you

I'm young and I love to be young
I'm free and I love to be free
To live my life the way I want …
You Don't Own Me - Download Midi
1964

I hope I didn't contribute to those tears. If so, I'll back away from this thread. I think the reason why people came along with such strong opinions is, you made broad sweeping statements as if all UPC churches were just like the one you experienced. I do believe you though because I know others who have been through just what you described.

ILG, the bible says offenses are going to come. I read other forums too. If you was in the AoG or the Baptist church, the charismatic church, offenses would come if you belonged to one of them also. They fight, have church splits etc. it's just a different set of reasons. understand??

My parents pastored for 47 years. It would take too long to tell you all they went through. You cannot imagine! but coming thru poverty, the war, the depression, prepared them. they were tough as nails. I could have never done it.

I heard a study the other day that really stuck with me. It was a a bible lesson on hurts and forgiveness. I don't remember much of it but what stuck with me was 3 things:

!. Don't Rehearse it

2. Don't nurse it

3. Don't curse it

They went into detail on each of these and also pointed out that one of signs of the endtimes will be that many will be offended AND many will fall away ( as a result)

[meBNme]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

No need to be so combative here, MBNM. She's shared her experience, you've shared yours, everyone is happy.

Not being combative. Sorry it came accross that way. Just pointing out the other side.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by ILG

Ferd,

My experience seems shared by a number of others on this board. So, how about if we discuss the issue rather than whether you experienced it or not? I trust you are telling me the truth when you say you didn't.

that is perfectly fine. my only issue was in you suggesting that this problem is the UPCI's . the implication here is that all of the UPCI is guilty as charged.


please proceed, its been done since the FCF days why stop now?


But also expect when the line gets crossed to stand up and defend the organization that we are still a part of and has never hurt us.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ILG

Good grief, I didn't expect this thread to turn into this. I have tears in my eyes. I speak only with the hopes of touching my fellow human beings. With that always comes the risk of being misunderstood or ostracized. Anyway, I now know that I don't answer to man but only to God. Yesterday at work I ran into an apostolic woman. She had a hard time looking at me because of my trimmed hair. I don't blame her. I understand. I know she too, has a love affair going on and she loves her love. That's okay. But, not to her so much as to the lover that unrequited my love, I sang this song. I loved you at one time, but you have lost your chance. Please understand, this song is not to God, just to the church that didn't love me.

This is where your heart is, ILG. What I am reading is that the whole organization let you down, when it was the people in your circle. I don't see you focusing on victory, but your pain. I guess I just don't get it. I hope that doesn't offend you. I seriously and honestly do not want to hurt or offend you. I think the whole conversation interests me in that in every way and on every occasion God has rescued me and I don't have to focus on what hurt me, but how God brought me out. I just don't see how what you are saying is actually helping anyone. It only causes me to see the pain.

What am I missing? I really want to understand, ILG. Is it a personality difference?

I know a pastor (UPCI) that went broke trying to keep his church floating financially. He turned in his license because he couldn't afford to pay the fee. When he wanted to get his license back, after he got on his feet financially, the district he was in was like - "No can do. You're credit is shot." LOL! WUT?!!

Another District saw how ridiculous that was and got him his license back. Now, God is blessing and he is being used of God to heal a broken and hurt church.

He said he was hurt, but knows that God is greater and he still loves many elements of the organization. You see? He didn't have to leave. He just allowed God to take his situation and turn it around for his good. Was it his faith or was it just the Will of God for his life?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I dont mind it when hurting people deal with their pain.oo in fact i think that is a good thing (we may disagree on how to deal...)

but what I find is often hurting people need to have someone focus them on their own pain.

far too often hurting people either think everyone else is hurting just like them or everyone out there is an abuser/

... its worth repeating.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I know a pastor (UPCI) that went broke trying to keep his church floating financially. He turned in his license because he couldn't afford to pay the fee. When he wanted to get his license back, after he got on his feet financially, the district he was in was like - "No can do. Your credit is shot." LOL! WUT?!!

Another District saw how ridiculous that was and got him his license back. Now, God is blessing and he is being used of God to heal a broken and hurt church.

He said he was hurt, but knows that God is greater and he still loves many elements of the organization. You see? He didn't have to leave. He just allowed God to take his situation and turn it around for his good. Was it his faith or was it just the Will of God for his life?

Wow. Am I understanding this right? Somebody needs to get credit approval to get a UPC license?

I wonder if the Apostle Paul were here today, if he'd be able to pass a credit-check??
And if he couldn't, would the good apostle be denied a ministerial license?

Vewy intwesting.