Some opinions wanted - Page 4

ManOfWord · #31 12-07-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

One offerring is enough.
Two offerrings is tolerable.
Three offerrings is stupidity,
and 4 offerrrings is intolerable.

Blessings, Rhoni

My sentiments exactly!!!

freeatlast · #32 12-07-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

While that sounds good, faith comes by hearing and having a box in the back robs the people of faith for God's system of financial provision.

Sorry GS, your statement doesn't seem to make any sence to me.

possibly you could explain " God's system of financial provision."

Is there some scripture I have missed that say's our offings must be placed in a passed gold or silver plate and not in a wooden box by the doors tro the sanctuary ???

Margies3 · #33 12-07-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

So, how should a pastor's salary be determined?
At a figure that equals the average salary of the membership?
Slightly higher than the largest salary in the congregation?
Two, three, or ten times the average salary of the membership?

Sam, do you want my honest opinion on that?

I realize that many teach that the Biblical mandate is for the pastor to receive ALL of the tithes. My experience tho is that in the smaller churches, where all of the tithe isn't even enough for the pastor to live on, the pastor usually takes NONE of the tithes. Instead he finds a job and pastors part time. That's not really best for anyone involved. But it does happen.

the only pastors I have ever known who took all of the tithe, pastored large churches. In those cases, those pastors could and did end up making alot of money. FORTUNATELY, in my experience, those are few and far between.

So how much should a pastor's salary be? I don't think there is any one right answer to that question. He definately should not be expected to live at poverty level. Definately NOT! Should he make double the amount of the average person in his congregation? In most cases, I'd say probably not. Only because that tends to breed resentment. That can't be healthy for the ministry of a church. But should he make less than the average family in his church? Certainly not.

We recently went thru a big mess here in our local Methodist Church. The congregation is not a huge congregation (60-100 people). And not well-to-do. I'd say the "average" salary would be in the $50,000 range. The church provides a nice parsonage. It's a 3 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath brick ranch with a large family room, dining room, 2 car attached garage and sunroom on the back. Well, this new pastor came in and decided that it was too small. He insisted that the church should buy him a new home. He had it all picked out. $250,000!! Mind you, in our town, a very nice home goes for about $125,000. He wanted a 5 bedroom mega house! For him and his wife. All his kids are grown and gone. You should have heard the ruckus that caused!

So see, in my opinion, if you're in this to get rich, then you need to get out. That's not what God calls people for. He calls them so they can minister to the sheep. But if the sheep are looking at what the pastor is driving or living in or wearing or vacationing at, and it gets in the way of them hearing the voice of God from that pastor, then well.................. is that pleasing to God?

Again, PLEASE DON'T THINK THAT I AM SAYING THAT PASTORS NEED TO BE POOR PEOPLE!! Absolutely not! And shame on any congregation that would keep their pastor at poverty level!

freeatlast · #34 12-07-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

It is very simple. According to the Bible there is only one way that faith comes (Rom 10:17), by hearing the Word.

Now, if someone says, "Ushers come up and pass the plates" you are absolutely right, no faith will come. But if someone takes a few minutes and exhorts from the Word why we are to give then according to the Word faith will come.

Too often, the focus of "offering time" is about the church getting the money it needs to operate. Tithes and offerings is a time of worship. It is a way we honor God and when faith comes and we give according to how God designed His system there are many promises that will manifest in our life.

Having a box in the back and nothing being said about giving robs people of the Word, the opportunity, and the reason we give.

We do teach on finacially supporting the work of God with our finances. We just don't teach it every Sunday.

ManOfWord · #35 12-07-2008, 07:56 PM

Our church board determines the salary I make. There is NO way I would take all the tithes, neither do I believe a pastor has a right to them. I'm not in this to get rich. However, the good folks @NLC desire for my family to be taken care of, and for that I am grateful! My wife and I have always been in the top givers of NLC and we are not the top wage earners. I believe in giving to what one believes in and I believe in our local church!

gloryseeker · #36 12-07-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Sorry GS, your statement doesn't seem to make any sence to me.

possibly you could explain " God's system of financial provision."

Is there some scripture I have missed that say's our offings must be placed in a passed gold or silver plate and not in a wooden box by the doors tro the sanctuary ???

I have no problem with, nor was my comments directed at the material of the container.

And no, I don't believe there are any scriptures about passing a plate. But there are scriptures about bringing your gift to the altar. But that was not even my point.

Four times in the Word of God we are told that the just shall live by faith. Which means our giving should be in faith also, not just dropped in a box while we walk by the trash can and throw our Kleenex away.

Why do we give?
What is the purpose of our giving?
How do we give?

These are questions that should be answered that are in the hearts of many as they war with the thoughts that they "can't afford" to give.

If the Pastor would exhort (not extort) people and show them the Biblical reasons for giving, the why's and the how's then offering time won't be about the collection of money, but about worshiping God and being honorable stewards.

Hope that helps ya

gloryseeker · #37 12-07-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast

We do teach on finacially supporting the work of God with our finances. We just don't teach it every Sunday.

Well, that's different altogether. You said you don't even mention it. I don't think it has to be taught every week just like we don't teach on healing every week, but if it is never mentioned then people will never come to faith.

Hoovie · #38 12-07-2008, 08:00 PM

17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

They should be well paid, according to their qualifications, training and education.
It would be unfair to compare one occupation to another though, and the median income may or may not be a good benchmark.

PS I find nothing in scripture where a church leader should set his own salary.

gloryseeker · #39 12-07-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Our church board determines the salary I make. There is NO way I would take all the tithes, neither do I believe a pastor has a right to them. I'm not in this to get rich. However, the good folks @NLC desire for my family to be taken care of, and for that I am grateful! My wife and I have always been in the top givers of NLC and we are not the top wage earners. I believe in giving to what one believes in and I believe in our local church!

I agree with you in that we invest in what we believe in.

You may want to check your structure because from an IRS point of view the Board of Directors cannot establish your salary. If not set up properly you could jeopardize your 501(c)(3). An independent financial committee needs to be involved especially if it can be viewed that your Board has a personal interest in your salary....like relatives who may serve on the Board.

My wife and I are also the biggest givers in our church, we are also the most blessed!

Sam · #40 12-07-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margies3

...

Again, PLEASE DON'T THINK THAT I AM SAYING THAT PASTORS NEED TO BE POOR PEOPLE!! Absolutely not! And shame on any congregation that would keep their pastor at poverty level!

How about the Board Meeting where the deacon prayed,
"Lord, help us keep our pastor poor and humble.
We'll keep him poor, Lord.
You keep him humble."