Why I have no respect for the protesters

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by bishoph

With all due respect my friend, from all that I have been able to find there is no such thing as a Palestinian. This is one of the biggest hoaxes every perpetrated against the Jews and the public at large ever done. "Palestinians" are really a bunch of "outcasts" from all of the surrounding Arab nations who have settled in this area demanding representation. Think about it there has never been a nation called Palestine. Palestine is a geographic area not a nation.

Just another perspective

That's a good point, but it should not (and I don't think that you intend) to diminish the basic rights that every human being should be accorded. Israel has consistently treated the Palestinians better than the Palestinians themselves. Where was the world when Hamas ruthlessly took power in a bloodbath a couple of years ago? Why no cries of despair over the innocent Palestinians who were slaughtered by their fellow Palestinians?

That being said, who has extended the most "rights" to the "Palestinians?" Muslim Arabs living within the Jewish state of Israel are given full rights and receive gov't payouts just like other Israelis... in fact, usually more payouts.

And, Gaza was a part of Egyptian sovereign territory from at least 1801 until 1967. Looking at ancient maps shows that this area was Egyptian even then. Egypt then abandoned their own citizens, cancelled their citizenship, shut off all public services and said it was Israel's fault.

The Arab gov'ts of the region have created this ugly hole by refusing to help in resettlement and by encouraging the mess.

The UN has a history of facilitating population transfers and resettlement in the interest of peace. After WW2 2.3 million Greeks were forcibly resettled from the homes their ancestors had inhabited for over 5,000 years in the Aegean basin. No one raised a cry - in fact it was a part of several treaty agreements among the nations of the world. The Greeks moved out of their land and never looked back in the interest of peace.

Literally 10's of millions of Hindus and Muslims were moved around when Pakistan was created. They lost their homes in the interest of peace. Almost 20 million Germans were uprooted. They went along with the resettlement. Nobody liked these moves, but they were deemed necessary to bring peace to some of the world's most troubled regions. Danzig, Stettin, Pomerania, Memel, Koenigsberg, Kurland and other cities and regions, some with million+ inhabitants were enirely depopulated of their German inhabitants.

Why can't the Arabs help us out here? They started several wars of aggression and lost. They have no justifiable claim over the land possessed by the Jewish state. This wasn't even "holy land" to them until after 1967. It was a back water - that didn't even have any water! Tel Aviv was built on empty sand dunes.

Israel has repeatedly reached out for peace and been repeatedly burned. And now because it's chic in some fashion circles to wear the Pali keffiyeh Israel has to endure more propagandistic attacks.

This whole affair has been carefully crafted by the Arab rulers to create the greatest amount of suffering possible. There are some who have courageously stood up for peace, like the late King Hussein of Jordan and President Sadat of Egypt. But look at what they did to Sadat for "betraying" their warlike nature. The "protestors" that were mentioned in the first post are actually celebrating death! They celebrate the deaths of great men like Sadat and thousands of others within the Arab world who spoke up for peace and were slaughtered.

[pelathais]

Some ways in which innocent Palestinians get hurt.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by bishoph

With all due respect my friend, from all that I have been able to find there is no such thing as a Palestinian. This is one of the biggest hoaxes every perpetrated against the Jews and the public at large ever done. "Palestinians" are really a bunch of "outcasts" from all of the surrounding Arab nations who have settled in this area demanding representation. Think about it there has never been a nation called Palestine. Palestine is a geographic area not a nation.

Just another perspective

There is a lot of truth there that is not generally mentioned.
For centuries that area has been very sparsely populated by Jews and Arabs.
Much of the land was just about unfit for living with swamps and barren places. Years ago there had been a tax on trees and so they had been cut down allowing the land to erode. Jewish people began buying land in the late 1800's from the land owners in Europe began to drain the swamps, plant trees, till the land, plant crops, etc. When the "desert" began to "blossom like the rose" Arabs moved in from other areas. These immigrants are the ones called "Palestinians." When the surrounding Arab countries warned the "Palestinians" to get out so they could destroy Israel, many did. These are some of the "refugees."

Much of that part of the world was under the dominion of the Ottoman Empire before World War 1. The Ottoman Turks sided with the Germans and lost World War 1 to the US, England, and France. After the war, the European winners took over the old Ottoman Empire and divided it up into countries like Persia, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc. They could do this because they won it in a war. They designated a portion of the area for Jewish homeland and a portion for Arabs. The Arabs received TransJordan which is modern day Jordan.

[deacon blues]

Just to let you know what their Arab brothers think of them, even Egypt has a closed border with Gaza. These people teach their children to hate Jews starting from the time they are born. Until they root out their corrupt leaders and their hatred for Israelis, they will struggle for survival.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Katie

I hate that anyone has to die. But, our job is to protect Israel. I am sorry that protecting Israel means others will die. I personally (just me) feel and respect your feelings as well.. but I feel our job as Christians are to protect Israel, and that is what I will do. What anyone else does is between them and God. The Palestinians blow up their own sanctuaries, they have not love for one another and can't tell you the hatred they have for us. I do love them, but God's work comes first. That part of the world has been fighting for thousands of years and will.. it is in Genesis that they will. The best we can do is what God asks us. But, I do appreciate you and your thoughts and feelings and want peace for all, we all do. My suggestion to all is to ask God to bring that peace instead of fighting amongst ourselves. Prayer works much more than arguing on the net.. God Bless you all

Having been in the Army, I think Israel can and should protect herself. lol Sorry, I don't think American boys are obligated to die for the modern nation state of Israel.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

You should remind your Palestinian friends that Jews still lived there even after a majority were scattered.

Very true, there were Jews living in the area too.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by bishoph

With all due respect my friend, from all that I have been able to find there is no such thing as a Palestinian. This is one of the biggest hoaxes every perpetrated against the Jews and the public at large ever done. "Palestinians" are really a bunch of "outcasts" from all of the surrounding Arab nations who have settled in this area demanding representation. Think about it there has never been a nation called Palestine. Palestine is a geographic area not a nation.

Just another perspective

Depends on how you define Palestinian. It's definitely not a race or nationality. It's more like a regional people group from a number of ethnic origins.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by pelathais

That's a good point, but it should not (and I don't think that you intend) to diminish the basic rights that every human being should be accorded. Israel has consistently treated the Palestinians better than the Palestinians themselves. Where was the world when Hamas ruthlessly took power in a bloodbath a couple of years ago? Why no cries of despair over the innocent Palestinians who were slaughtered by their fellow Palestinians?

That being said, who has extended the most "rights" to the "Palestinians?" Muslim Arabs living within the Jewish state of Israel are given full rights and receive gov't payouts just like other Israelis... in fact, usually more payouts.

And, Gaza was a part of Egyptian sovereign territory from at least 1801 until 1967. Looking at ancient maps shows that this area was Egyptian even then. Egypt then abandoned their own citizens, cancelled their citizenship, shut off all public services and said it was Israel's fault.

The Arab gov'ts of the region have created this ugly hole by refusing to help in resettlement and by encouraging the mess.

The UN has a history of facilitating population transfers and resettlement in the interest of peace. After WW2 2.3 million Greeks were forcibly resettled from the homes their ancestors had inhabited for over 5,000 years in the Aegean basin. No one raised a cry - in fact it was a part of several treaty agreements among the nations of the world. The Greeks moved out of their land and never looked back in the interest of peace.

Literally 10's of millions of Hindus and Muslims were moved around when Pakistan was created. They lost their homes in the interest of peace. Almost 20 million Germans were uprooted. They went along with the resettlement. Nobody liked these moves, but they were deemed necessary to bring peace to some of the world's most troubled regions. Danzig, Stettin, Pomerania, Memel, Koenigsberg, Kurland and other cities and regions, some with million+ inhabitants were enirely depopulated of their German inhabitants.

Why can't the Arabs help us out here? They started several wars of aggression and lost. They have no justifiable claim over the land possessed by the Jewish state. This wasn't even "holy land" to them until after 1967. It was a back water - that didn't even have any water! Tel Aviv was built on empty sand dunes.

Israel has repeatedly reached out for peace and been repeatedly burned. And now because it's chic in some fashion circles to wear the Pali keffiyeh Israel has to endure more propagandistic attacks.

This whole affair has been carefully crafted by the Arab rulers to create the greatest amount of suffering possible. There are some who have courageously stood up for peace, like the late King Hussein of Jordan and President Sadat of Egypt. But look at what they did to Sadat for "betraying" their warlike nature. The "protestors" that were mentioned in the first post are actually celebrating death! They celebrate the deaths of great men like Sadat and thousands of others within the Arab world who spoke up for peace and were slaughtered.

Good points.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by SiblingRevelry

I'd just like to point out that a handful of Israelis have died while hundreds of Gazans have died. This is not proportionate by any stretch of the imagination.

I realize it's an extremely unpopular thing to do here in America, to express something contrary to the almost universally held belief that we have to support Israel no matter what. But I'm suggesting that maybe people should go read Ha'aretz (Israeli newspaper, available in English) for a few days, and you might get a slightly different perspective.

I'm NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT saying that Hamas is guilt-free. NOT. I am just saying that we are not talking about the hundreds of dead at the hands of the Israelis and how it is profoundly disproportionate to the number dead due to Hamas rocket attacks. Both sides should back off. And the Arab governments ought to be leaning all over Hamas to get them to STOP IT.

But the reason I get onto Israel is because we (USA) give Israel money, we help prop up their economy and, since money's fungible, our tax dollars are going into helicopter gunships and shelling of people whose only crime is that they live in Gaza. They don't have any control over Hamas' sending rockets in to Sderot. But they're made to pay under the long-standing Israeli policy of collective punishment.

Go ahead, smack me around, but someone had to say it.

Why should it be proportionate? How can you end being attacked if 1) the world community doesn't do squat when one side lobs rockets at the other 2) only complains when the other side strikes back 3) you are expected to just make an equal response?

you ever watch football? The goal is to win...you don't do that by keeping the score even.

BTW they voted Hamas in. They allowed Hamas in. The World sends in UN observers to watch them rocket Israel and then rag on Israel when they strike back. We all feel sorry for those Palestinians but it is unreasonable to expect Israel to be attacked over and over and over with no end. If you want to end it, you win the war.

They had a cease fire agreement...one that was supposed to be lasting one. What does Hamas do? They dig tunnels into Israel so they can attack. They dig cross border tunnels so they can bring in more arms. They plant a bomb. Then they start lobbing rockets. That is the same story over and over and over. The UN does nothing. They wait until Israel gets sick of it and they strike back then they craft some lame UN resolution condemning Israel.