I think lack of censorship is crucial, even if it causes some tussles. Freedom of speech is how we learn and grow. I would rather admin was cautious on the side of lenient than chasing down every complaint. Not only would that be ridiculous, it would stifle discussion and burn out the admin.
This is a fantastic point, and the primary reason why I rarely even browse the AM forum anymore. There is basically no controversial discussion/debate allowed. As soon as a sacred cow is challenged with any legitimate argument, the discussion gets hammered down, posts get deleted and the topic gets locked. I realize it's a UPCI-owned forum, but the "we're not going to discuss things that might challenge us" mindset is disappointing. Look at their active topics any day and there might be as many as five active topics - mostly humor or welcomes to new members. Rarely any meaty discussions.
I'm VERY thankful for AFF, and I'm so glad that I found you all. While I don't see everything the same way everyone else here does, I still feel like this is a community, a fellowship where we can talk about things openly -- even "those things we don't speak of." Thank you, Renda, and the rest of the owners/admins here for providing this forum!
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Instead of studying to make sure what we believe is supported by Scripture, we MUST study the Scripture to see what IT TEACHES... then BELIEVE THAT!
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2.15 KJV
Those that posted with Jim Yohe - do you think he would be disappointed in AFF?
No, i can say with 100% conviction that this is exactly what he wanted FaithChild forums to be. I was in his sons wedding, split hotel rooms with him, and traveled with him while he was in my part of the country.
When he called me to help with his initial Faithchild forum i turned him down because i had 1000x projects going on to do another one for free. This is pretty much what he described he wanted, a place for UPC folks and apostolics to discuss issues without fear of being called out and punished by the powers that be.
Jim was a moderate/liberal, i know because i sat and visited his home multiple times, ate his wifes cooking in Independence, LA and had many many deep discussions of standards, the UPC's history (remember that his dad started two districts of the UPC N. and S. Dakota) and other things. In fact he is a major influence on how i became a left leaning apostolic (which is still to the right of 99% of the rest of Christianity).
No, i can say with 100% conviction that this is exactly what he wanted FaithChild forums to be. I was in his sons wedding, split hotel rooms with him, and traveled with him while he was in my part of the country.
When he called me to help with his initial Faithchild forum i turned him down because i had 1000x projects going on to do another one for free. This is pretty much what he described he wanted, a place for UPC folks and apostolics to discuss issues without fear of being called out and punished by the powers that be.
Jim was a moderate/liberal, i know because i sat and visited his home multiple times, ate his wifes cooking in Independence, LA and had many many deep discussions of standards, the UPC's history (remember that his dad started two districts of the UPC N. and S. Dakota) and other things. In fact he is a major influence on how i became a left leaning apostolic (which is still to the right of 99% of the rest of Christianity).
The absolute truth! What the ultra-cons call "liberal" on this board is still extreme conservatism to most of Christianity!
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I find it increasingly insulting that we label each other. And I think that especially insults God!!!!!
Jesus blood makes us equal.
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Those that posted with Jim Yohe - do you think he would be disappointed in AFF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Service
No, i can say with 100% conviction that this is exactly what he wanted FaithChild forums to be. I was in his sons wedding, split hotel rooms with him, and traveled with him while he was in my part of the country.
When he called me to help with his initial Faithchild forum i turned him down because i had 1000x projects going on to do another one for free. This is pretty much what he described he wanted, a place for UPC folks and apostolics to discuss issues without fear of being called out and punished by the powers that be.
Jim was a moderate/liberal, i know because i sat and visited his home multiple times, ate his wifes cooking in Independence, LA and had many many deep discussions of standards, the UPC's history (remember that his dad started two districts of the UPC N. and S. Dakota) and other things. In fact he is a major influence on how i became a left leaning apostolic (which is still to the right of 99% of the rest of Christianity).
Jim Yohe was in the vanguard of a new era of open communication among Oneness Pentecostals. The reality for all of us is that the world in which we live and serve God has been dramatically altered by the Internet, for the better and for the worse.
As Silent Service as said, Jim wanted a place for open discussion; in that respect Jim was a leader in dragging Oneness people into the Internet era. FCF was the first forum that I participated in, and had the privilege of posting with Jim Yohe there, but FCF wasn’t Jim’s first forum. My understanding was that Jim Yohe had started FCF because of the lack of opportunity for open discussion on other forums (I think that he held the “ban record” before he became Mr. FCF.)
In that respect, AFF is the forum that Jim Yohe began. Jim Yohe set out to challenge the status quo, to challenge preachers and saints alike to discuss, debate, and defend their views. I think that he had a passion to see the movement he loved move into the post modern era, and to provide a viable faith for the countless Jesus Name people that were and are struggling with traditions that don’t do well under Scriptural scrutiny.
Having said that, I think that FCF was not a sustainable experiment, due to several factors: one being that it challenged traditions that are much loved but that lack strong Scriptural foundations; and another being that it challenged preachers to meet questioners on equal footing without the weight of the pulpit or position. In the beginning, because it was new, people from every part of the spectrum of Oneness Pentecost joined the conversation with gusto, confident that they would convince others of their view of correct doctrine.
Although my saying so will probably be dismissed as merely partisan rhetoric, the traditional positions, particularly concerning standards, have not fared well in forum discussions. The lines of reasoning and theological grounds for many of the standards that Jim Yohe set out to challenge have not been successful in convincing questioners. This has caused many who hold to the traditional positions to withdraw from open discussion, believing that the end result of open conversation is to see people depart from standards.
It has somehow become popular to claim offence as a reason for withdrawing from this forum. In reality, neither side of the lib/con divide has any right to claim the high moral ground in terms of attitude and posting style, and the claim of “offence” as a reason for leaving looks like a smokescreen to those left behind. There is undeniable peer pressure among the more conservative brethren not to post here, and those who have posted have felt compelled to justify their being here to their peers.
In conclusion (Don’t you hate long posts? I rarely read them), the conservatives are doing their cause and the seekers who show up here a disservice by withdrawing into their closed forums. I feel, as did Jim Yohe, that it is important that there be a strong Acts 2:38 voice on the Internet. Young people in this day look to the Internet as one of their primary sources of information, and, when they ask questions, their first response is to click for answers. If the Acts 2:38 message is only proclaimed behind impenetrable barriers young people will be the first to miss the message. The reality of this day is that many people, and they’re not all young, are questioning standards, and they are going to show up here with their questions. If the conservatives withdraw from the conversation, the only answers that the questioners are going to find are going to be liberal opinions.
This forum, and the twenty first century, may not be a comfortable place for conservatives, but an important part of the battle for the heart and mind of this generation is going to be fought on the bandwidth battlefield. I would appeal to the conservative brethren not to abandon the battleground.
(Please excuse any typos and the garbled syntax. This post is too long for me to proofread without being put to sleep through the monotonous cadence of my own laboured and belaboured sentences.)
Jim Yohe was in the vanguard of a new era of open communication among Oneness Pentecostals. The reality for all of us is that the world in which we live and serve God has been dramatically altered by the Internet, for the better and for the worse.
As Silent Service as said, Jim wanted a place for open discussion; in that respect Jim was a leader in dragging Oneness people into the Internet era. FCF was the first forum that I participated in, and had the privilege of posting with Jim Yohe there, but FCF wasn’t Jim’s first forum. My understanding was that Jim Yohe had started FCF because of the lack of opportunity for open discussion on other forums (I think that he held the “ban record” before he became Mr. FCF.)
I think that Jim aka Cyclops on Good News Cafe would be happy with this forum.
Cyclops used to irritate me.. I am so glad he finally was able to get through this thick skull of mine. I really miss him.
Jim Yohe was in the vanguard of a new era of open communication among Oneness Pentecostals. The reality for all of us is that the world in which we live and serve God has been dramatically altered by the Internet, for the better and for the worse.
As Silent Service as said, Jim wanted a place for open discussion; in that respect Jim was a leader in dragging Oneness people into the Internet era. FCF was the first forum that I participated in, and had the privilege of posting with Jim Yohe there, but FCF wasn’t Jim’s first forum. My understanding was that Jim Yohe had started FCF because of the lack of opportunity for open discussion on other forums (I think that he held the “ban record” before he became Mr. FCF.)
In that respect, AFF is the forum that Jim Yohe began. Jim Yohe set out to challenge the status quo, to challenge preachers and saints alike to discuss, debate, and defend their views. I think that he had a passion to see the movement he loved move into the post modern era, and to provide a viable faith for the countless Jesus Name people that were and are struggling with traditions that don’t do well under Scriptural scrutiny.
Having said that, I think that FCF was not a sustainable experiment, due to several factors: one being that it challenged traditions that are much loved but that lack strong Scriptural foundations; and another being that it challenged preachers to meet questioners on equal footing without the weight of the pulpit or position. In the beginning, because it was new, people from every part of the spectrum of Oneness Pentecost joined the conversation with gusto, confident that they would convince others of their view of correct doctrine.
Although my saying so will probably be dismissed as merely partisan rhetoric, the traditional positions, particularly concerning standards, have not fared well in forum discussions. The lines of reasoning and theological grounds for many of the standards that Jim Yohe set out to challenge have not been successful in convincing questioners. This has caused many who hold to the traditional positions to withdraw from open discussion, believing that the end result of open conversation is to see people depart from standards.
It has somehow become popular to claim offence as a reason for withdrawing from this forum. In reality, neither side of the lib/con divide has any right to claim the high moral ground in terms of attitude and posting style, and the claim of “offence” as a reason for leaving looks like a smokescreen to those left behind. There is undeniable peer pressure among the more conservative brethren not to post here, and those who have posted have felt compelled to justify their being here to their peers.
In conclusion (Don’t you hate long posts? I rarely read them), the conservatives are doing their cause and the seekers who show up here a disservice by withdrawing into their closed forums. I feel, as did Jim Yohe, that it is important that there be a strong Acts 2:38 voice on the Internet. Young people in this day look to the Internet as one of their primary sources of information, and, when they ask questions, their first response is to click for answers. If the Acts 2:38 message is only proclaimed behind impenetrable barriers young people will be the first to miss the message. The reality of this day is that many people, and they’re not all young, are questioning standards, and they are going to show up here with their questions. If the conservatives withdraw from the conversation, the only answers that the questioners are going to find are going to be liberal opinions.
This forum, and the twenty first century, may not be a comfortable place for conservatives, but an important part of the battle for the heart and mind of this generation is going to be fought on the bandwidth battlefield. I would appeal to the conservative brethren not to abandon the battleground.
(Please excuse any typos and the garbled syntax. This post is too long for me to proofread without being put to sleep through the monotonous cadence of my own laboured and belaboured sentences.)
Great Post!
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