Is baptism essential unto salvation?

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Man believes WHEN he obeys the gospel.

Went to grab a quick lunch....

Again, this wasn't the question I asked....

I'll ask it another way:

Is man condemned by God for the sins remitted at Calvary or does Scripture speak of something else for which he is condemned?

The point is this:

There is but one thing which brings condemnation on mankind today.... UNBELIEF. Those who do not believe the Gospel of Christ are condemned (John 3:18; John 3:36John 16:8-9).

IMPORTANT: The Gospel is not a PLAN FOR remission, it is NEWS OF remission.

Steve, you've admitted that "the Gospel (Good News)" is Good News concerning the historic event of sin remission which took place prior to the resurrection, yet while you accept that the Gospel is Good News of a historic remission you go on to redefine the Gospel as a PLAN FOR remission.

Having done this you then say that man doesn't 'believe' the Gospel until he 'follows' what you have redefined as the Gospel plan for remission. To 'believe' or 'obey' your gospel is to participate in the new 'gospel plan.'

This is nonsense and another gospel because the actual Gospel is not a step plan to be followed, but rather an accomplished event of history to be acknowledged and accepted by a trusting heart. It is a report to be obediently believed (Romans 10:16).

Sin remission WAS ENACTED at Calvary and THAT is Good News to be accepted by a heart of faith. Sin remission is not ENACTED AGAIN when one trusts in the historic remission of the Cross, nor is it ENACTED AGAIN when one participates in baptism which is an act of faith dramatizing what Christ did on the Cross and our resurrection to new life in him.

To 'obey' the Gospel is to believe the report God gives of his Son (Romans 10:16). To believe the report is to set to seal that God is true (John 3:33). To reject the report in unbelief is to call God a liar (1John 5:10) and to invite his condemnation and wrath (John 3:18; John 3:36; John 16:8-9).

We are called to respond to Good News not to another PLAN said to perform that which the Good News proclaims as having been accomplished. I fear you have redefined the Gospel to mean something other than the Good News it proclaims.

Don't you miss our talks

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Adino

Went to grab a quick lunch....

Again, this wasn't the question I asked....

I'll ask it another way:

Is man condemned by God for the sins remitted at Calvary or does Scripture speak of something else for which he is condemned?

The point is this:

There is but one thing which brings condemnation on mankind today.... UNBELIEF. Those who do not believe the Gospel of Christ are condemned (John 3:18; John 3:36John 16:8-9).

IMPORTANT: The Gospel is not a PLAN FOR remission, it is NEWS OF remission.

Steve, you've admitted that "the Gospel (Good News)" is Good News concerning the historic event of sin remission which took place prior to the resurrection, yet while you accept that the Gospel is Good News of a historic remission you go on to redefine the Gospel as a PLAN FOR remission.

Having done this you then say that man doesn't 'believe' the Gospel until he 'follows' what you have redefined as the Gospel plan for remission. To 'believe' or 'obey' your gospel is to participate in the new 'gospel plan.'

This is nonsense and another gospel because the actual Gospel is not a step plan to be followed, but rather an accomplished event of history to be acknowledged and accepted by a trusting heart. It is a report to be obediently believed (Romans 10:16).

Sin remission WAS ENACTED at Calvary and THAT is Good News to be accepted by a heart of faith. Sin remission is not ENACTED AGAIN when one trusts in the historic remission of the Cross, nor is it ENACTED AGAIN when one participates in baptism which is an act of faith dramatizing what Christ did on the Cross and our resurrection to new life in him.

To 'obey' the Gospel is to believe the report God gives of his Son (Romans 10:16). To believe the report is to set to seal that God is true (John 3:33). To reject the report in unbelief is to call God a liar (1John 5:10) and to invite his condemnation and wrath (John 3:18; John 3:36; John 16:8-9).

We are called to respond to Good News not to another PLAN said to perform that which the Good News proclaims as having been accomplished. I fear you have redefined the Gospel to mean something other than the Good News it proclaims.

Don't you miss our talks

Did YOU read what you wrote? YOU have stated repentance is an act of faith. So faith is useless without repentance. TRUE faith produces repentance in man! And TRUE faith produces obedience to the gospel which includes baptism FOR the remission of sins.

I have NO new PLAN I preach the plan Jesus told his apostles to preach Mt.28:19-Mk.16:16-Luke 24:47 and obeyed by the Apostles at Pentecost in the answer given in Acts 2:38!
Tis the 'faith-only' folks who have NO plan!

The ONLY reason a person is NOT baptized FOR the remission of sins they do NOT believe the gospel message. True faith put the believers in the Ark. Saying I believe but staying OUTSIDE the ARK is proof of their unbelief.

Yes I enjoy our talks. I nearly have you restored wiill the musicians please come to the music and play "One Way To God."

[Adino]

YOU have stated repentance is an act of faith.

Steve, please show us where I have stated this. It is untrue.

[Adino]

Steve, is man condemned by God for the sins you have agreed were remitted prior to the resurrection at Calvary?

If you believe man remains condemned for those sins, then you do not believe Christ accomplished sin remission on the Cross.

Sounds like you have another gospel which calls the work of the Cross inadequate.

[El Predicador]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

EL Predicador the devil can even speak in tongues but that don't stop you guys from doing it so would yall please stop using the(even the devil believes thing.....)

This saying does not validate anything.....Even the devils believe and tremble

True son, I have help cast the devil out of many a fake tongue talker.

As far as the "devil believes thing" I believe you are referring to Holy Scripture and no I shall not stop using it.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If the man’s sins were considered remitted/removed/gone at Calvary… man doesn’t even need to believe to experience salvation.

Ah, but having been reconciled by his death we are saved by his life (Romans 5:10) and only he that believes is passed from death unto life (John 3:15-16, 36; John 5:24; John 6:40,47; John 11:25,26).

To believe the report of the Gospel is to set to seal that God is true (John 3:33). To reject the report in unbelief is to call God a liar (1John 5:10) and to invite his condemnation and wrath (John 3:18; John 3:36; John 16:8-9). Condemnation comes because of unbelief, not because of any of the sins remitted on the Cross.

[El Predicador]

Originally Posted by Adino

Steve, is man condemned by God for the sins you have agreed were remitted prior to the resurrection at Calvary?

If you believe man remains condemned for those sins, then you do not believe Christ accomplished sin remission on the Cross.

Sounds like you have another gospel which calls the work of the Cross inadequate.

Do you believe a man is saved before he repents?

[KWSS1976]

O so you know what real tongues sound like El predicador I thought it was a "Heavenly language" so how would you know if it was fake or not?

[El Predicador]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

O so you know what real tongues sound like El predicador I thought it was a "Heavenly language" so how would you know if it was fake or not?

It's called spiritual discernment son, a topic it sounds like you are totally unfamiliar with.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by El Predicador

Do you believe a man is saved before he repents?

Man is saved IN repentance. Repentance is a returning to God in faith. The New Testament calls for the repentant heart to return from dead works to a faith in God via the record he gave of his Son. The repentant heart comes to God via the Gospel message of Christ.