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[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Do you agree the show is disgusting or not? That's what this thread was about. Not about how unloving or unspiritual the rest of us aren't because we didn't attend a retreat with a "gay Christian." Americans are made up of many worldviews, one of them Christians. You opinion does count. Jerusalem wasn't a democracy. It was a place of persecution. We are blessed.

I don't see anyone as being "unloving or unspiritual" who takes a strong stand against something like this. I do have issues with the way we speak about them though. Sometimes I think we're far too venomous and hateful in our words.

You'll notice in the writings of Paul he was concerned with the lifestyles of the church. Paul didn't lead a crusade to reform Rome. In fact, when Christianity because political it opened the door for the statist mess of Constantinism and Romanism.

As for what I think about the show... I haven't seen it. Odds are I'd not watch it. But if I did...depending on how they depict the gay parents, I might find it repulsive, I might not.

Your views seem identical to Heavenlys. It's compartmentalized parenting instead of holistic. We run into people like that your friend often -- they convict us. I had a Buddhist friend that was like that. It's amazing. I just find it irrelevant frankly. Culture is all about a fight. You want to lay down and let it go, but the other side is ravenous and eager to gain promotion into society as not just "alternative" but normal. Love yes. Have no backbone and no clarity about right/wrong? No.

To me it's a matter of being a realist. Think of it like this: What do we advocate...having the STATE take children from loving parents who are gay just because many of us find their lifestyle unacceptable? To me that's unacceptable. Preaching against lifestyles that we believe are sinful in our churches is expected. Our families living according to their religious convictions is perfectly in order. Fighting to protect OUR rights is a necessity. However, fighting to control others that we don't agree with in free country... that I cannot accept. Treating anyone like a second class citizen based on a very private and personal matter such as this is unacceptable to me as an American who believes in freedom. In my opinion, fighting for my freedoms and liberties is combined with fighting for theirs. Liberty is Holy... even if men use said liberty for things that are sinful or unacceptable to us.

Yes, ultimately we deal with it. But we don't have to right now. And we certainly don't have sit here debating a thread that is talking about how perverse a show with a same-sex couple is.

I've not seen the sitcom. I don't know if it's perverse or just offering a humorous depiction of an aspect of American life many of us disagree with.

Unmarried couples? I think that's a tragedy. Let's just shoot straight on this one though: it's an age-old problem inside an acceptable design. This shouldn't open the doors for same-sex parenting. Poor logic, Aquila. Because A=B, therefore C=B.

Now, it sounds like you're wanting to back peddle a little. Two adults living together outside of marriage is more than a tragedy... it's a "sin"... just like same gender couplings. I think the vast number of these arrangements between unmarried men and women do more to undermine marriage than a marginal section of our society coupling. What does shacking up teach millions of American children day in and day out? It would almost be better if the kids were raised in a gay household where the people were "married" or in "civil union". At least it illustrates a binding legal commitment between intimate partners. If anything we as a culture should expect that ANYONE living in an intimate relationship be legally bound and responsible for said relationship. We don't downgrade this to a "tragedy" or just an "age-old problem".

Same-sex parents can be good people, who can provide for their children the basic needs. However, they fall miserably short in areas of modeling behaviors.

Brother, Jeff... we all fall miserably short in areas of modeling behavior at times. Just keep in mind, some households with living arrangements we don't agree with do better than we do.