There are bad countries in which to live and there are good countries in which to live. IMO, it's not the good countries responsibility to save those who reside in bad countries. That's life. It's always been that way.
As to Aquila's statement of:
Quote:
What if your name was Jose and you lived in a country where you had virtually no education and most of the people you knew who were making a decent living were dealing drugs and pimping women. You're married and you've lost work and are about to deplete what little savings you have left. You can't find a good paying job anywhere at home that will help you make ends meet. What jobs you can do are slave labor that have unreasonable hours and only pay a pittance. Your wife is scared and your kids are scared. You borrowed money to keep your dingy apartment and to buy groceries. Now the loan shark is threatening your family.
This scenario happens all the time to Americans. But certainly if we hear about someone resorting to criminal activity to keep the bills paid we wouldn't give our endorsement nor condone such an excuse, surely.
This this statement:
Quote:
Personally, I'd grant them citizenship and then fine them between $200 to $500, put a 1st Degree Misdemeanor on their record, and give them six months probation. Violation of probation in this circumstance would result in a 3rd Degree Felony and one year in prison.
is appalling. We have enough illegals in our jails and prisons as it is. Lawmakers are setting free those who don't pose a threat to society to allow room for others who have committed lesser crimes, if that even makes sense. And just imagine the increase in the taxpayer burden! I have to pay for an illegal who violated the probation he shouldn't have had in the first place to live in a nice, heated/air conditioned room, three squares a day, premium health care for every sniffle and sneeze, and even a TV to watch, cable included. No bills to pay, no worries....just living it up because, hey, it's certainly better than what he left in the first place, isn't it? Heck, with such provisions, they'd all come illegally!! I'd do it too!
And to Aurelie, sorry, but I know too many foreigners who are legal citizens in this country. And your stating that you have to marry someone is a misnomer, since that is not the case according to immigration law. Just because you marry an American doesn't automatically make you one, and you can and will be deported anyway if you don't apply for citizenship.
I'm all for foreigners coming here to make a better life for themselves, but they have to do it legally, not continue being a burden on those who are citizens.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Everything in our government is too beuracratic, ...its basically just aquainting the immigrants with what we here face all the time
As far as the law being unjust. I say it is not unjust. It wouldn't be unjust if we decided to allow NO immigrants. It's unjust that their government doesn't provide them with good oppurtunities. That is where the unjustice lies. Since there are so many illegal immigrants coming here, maybe their homelands should pay us a "tribute" for their poor use of resources that causes their people to try to illegally come here. The point is that it is not injustice on our part if we turn them away. Nor would it be unjust if we deported every single illegal immigrant. The injustice doesn't fall on our country on this issue no matter how many sob story's you know of. So ultimately it is our country's decision to decide whether we show mercy or not, and we are under no moral or ethical obligation to do either. Regardless of whether we show mercy or not, reform needs to happen on the immigration front.
EXCELLENT POST, it is in keeping with what I said earlier, too.
MEXICO should be made by UNITED STATES to either do something to keep
their citizens there, (whatever happened to responsibility) OR repay this
country for the resources expended both for border enforcement AND other basic human care costs.
__________________ You can tell more about people
by what they say about others...than by what others
say about them.
People say: I would be happier if they got here legally and then started the correct process of becoming citizens.
But they are ignorant of immigration laws.
The system offers no legal channel for me to become a legal citizen (I know, I've seen countless immigration lawyers), except through marriage, and I don't want to marry unless it's for real with someone I'll love until I die.
BTY I'm white, college educated, speak English, am self-supporting, pay taxes (taxation without representation!), have a real SS card and driver's license (legal tourists can get them, and I got them when I was on my legal tourist Visa), I pay car insurance, I entered the U.S. legally (my parents brought me here when I was a teenager, on a tourist Visa). I attended an American college, and because I was an international student my parents had to pay about $18,000.00 a year in international student tuitions (yes, we contribute to the economy!). I'm middle class, I tithe, I support missionaries, I donate $$ to worthy Christian ministries etc.
I lived my most formative years here, most of my life, and I consider this country my home because I love America, I love Americans (all my friends are American after all). Also I no longer speak the language of my native country well enough to be employable there. But that's beside the point: I want to keep on living here because i love this country and I am contributing to this country positively. I'm not taking anything away. I'm an illegal immigrant who work hard and pay taxes that support American citizens who don't work and are on welfare...
I'm not a drain on the economy. On the contrary I contribute to it with my spending and taxes, yet can't reap all the benefit of a taxpayer because I'm not a legal citizen (yet). I've never used public services I haven't paid for (I'm a taxpayer like you). I'm healthy and never had to go to the hospital. When I go to the doctor or the dentist, I pay the amount in full with my own money.
Yes, I want to correct my status. But as of today, there is no correct process for me to become a legal citizen and the only legal way current immigration laws gives me is through marriage (a real marriage, otherwise that would be fraud). But so far marriage has not happened to me.
Why would it be wrong for the government to change immigration laws to allow someone like me to become a U.S. citizen (without having to get married. I want to get married like most singles do, but haven't found the right person yet)?
I believe the laws that prevent someone with my qualifications to become an American citizen are unjust (taxation without representation, hello?) and need to be changed.
One funny thing: One of my former customers published a newsletter that attacked illegal immigrants (the usual stereotypes: they are uneducated, don't pay taxes, are criminals etc.). He didn't know I was an illegal immigrant. He paid me to print, collate, fold, and mail his newsletter. So he railed against illegal immigrants, yet he was using my services because of my competitive prices. And the reason why my prices were competitive is because I can't get a white collar desk job my college education prepared me for because of my illegal status.
So he was complaining about illegal immigration while enjoying the benefits of it. Typical...
And please don't ask me where I am from. It's irrelevant. What does it matter if I'm Latin, Asian, European, or something else?
Aurelie
PS: I'm not sure if I'll continue posting here. I just thought my real life example could help some of you stop lumping all I.I. together, and help you stop thinking we all neatly fit into the stereotypical mold.
I doubt anyone thought that, no need to take it personal. IF you have decided to pay taxes (without representation as you continue to add) then that is your decision to go along with it., it doesn't matter to ME where you're from, so you've assumed something personal once more.
Some HAVE said though, that it is certain that immigration laws need to be changed, I even believe that., and I lament that the current ones make it so difficult, even impossible, for those wanting so badly to legally become citizens..to legally do so, I am one to admit that I do not know all the laws pertaining to citizenship., though I do know several from my church that have gone through all the necessary channels to obtain legal citizenship, that have said it IS a long drawn out process.
Hopefully before long, you too will be able to become a legal citizen I will pray for that.
__________________ You can tell more about people
by what they say about others...than by what others
say about them.
EXCELLENT POST, it is in keeping with what I said earlier, too.
MEXICO should be made by UNITED STATES to either do something to keep
their citizens there, (whatever happened to responsibility) OR repay this
country for the resources expended both for border enforcement AND other basic human care costs.
I'd just be happy if we solved the illegal immigration problem in a good way.
I have another far out there theory. We could take over mexico and turn it into corn fields that we could use for fuel. That way they could get jobs at home and we would have less dependence on foreign oil
In light of my DESPERATE NEED for the Grace of God, I would not turn in an illegal alien to the appropriate law enforcement authorities if he/she were a Holy Ghost filled brother or sister in Christ.
If they are within my sphere of influence, I would do all that I can to influence them to make the lawful decision-- via prayer and direct confrontation.
I would be as understanding, helpful and godly as I can while I deal with my brother who has such a pervasive sin problem.
If my efforts to influence the brother or sister to do right come up vain, I would go to church leadership.
If that didn't work, I'd probably avoid them, shun them whatever.
I wouldn't just report them to law enforcement.
If the illegal immigrant is outside the "Body of Christ", I would go to law enforcement as quickly as I possibly could.
I have so little tolerance for illiegal aliens, but I do have tolerance for my brother or sister who is dealing with the sin in their lives.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Location: In two of the most beautiful states in the U.S.A
Posts: 1,676
Re: Your answer to illegal immigration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson
I need to recant something.
In light of my DESPERATE NEED for the Grace of God, I would not turn in an illegal alien to the appropriate law enforcement authorities if he/she were a Holy Ghost filled brother or sister in Christ.
If they are within my sphere of influence, I would do all that I can to influence them to make the lawful decision-- via prayer and direct confrontation.
I would be as understanding, helpful and godly as I can while I deal with my brother who has such a pervasive sin problem.
If my efforts to influence the brother or sister to do right come up vain, I would go to church leadership.
If that didn't work, I'd probably avoid them, shun them whatever.
I wouldn't just report them to law enforcement.
If the illegal immigrant is outside the "Body of Christ", I would go to law enforcement as quickly as I possibly could..
What if by doing so you ruined their chance of finding God here in our country. Did you ever think that God may be sending the Missionary field to us?
If Mexico is that bad then get the word out and I'm sure before long the U.S.A will help. Get the word out and change it from within. Otherwise it seems you are just looking for excuses to come into the U.S.A. I keep on hearing it spoken like we have a mandate to let as many immigrants in that will come. We have no such mandate. The story's are sad this is true. But this country sadly isn't big enough to let everyone with a sad story in. If you really care about freedom why don't you do something to help reform mexico?
There are those working for change, but change is often very slow. In the mean time we have people in desperate situations fleeing to our nation for refuge and a chance at life. It's the only life they have. Do you blame them?
Remember jfrog... we too were strangers in Egypt. Unless one is a Native American, I think we look bad if we complain about immigrants.
rash? I suppose we can let every mexican into our country then. Every single one. To me that's the rash statement.
If a father of five risks his life to come here to keep his daughters from having to do the unthinkable to survive that's perfectly understandable. What would you do? Oh, I forgot, anti-immigration folks have all the answers... it would be so easy for you to live the lives these people lead wouldn't it?
The problem is... some of us are ungrateful for our freedom. So we feel no issues with denying it to someone else.
Location: In two of the most beautiful states in the U.S.A
Posts: 1,676
Re: Your answer to illegal immigration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog
I'd just be happy if we solved the illegal immigration problem in a good way.
I have another far out there theory. We could take over mexico and turn it into corn fields that we could use for fuel. That way they could get jobs at home and we would have less dependence on foreign oil
Why don't you like Mexicans ? There are illegals from other countries but you never mention them.
There are bad countries in which to live and there are good countries in which to live. IMO, it's not the good countries responsibility to save those who reside in bad countries. That's life. It's always been that way.
As to Aquila's statement of:
This scenario happens all the time to Americans. But certainly if we hear about someone resorting to criminal activity to keep the bills paid we wouldn't give our endorsement nor condone such an excuse, surely.
This this statement:
is appalling. We have enough illegals in our jails and prisons as it is. Lawmakers are setting free those who don't pose a threat to society to allow room for others who have committed lesser crimes, if that even makes sense. And just imagine the increase in the taxpayer burden! I have to pay for an illegal who violated the probation he shouldn't have had in the first place to live in a nice, heated/air conditioned room, three squares a day, premium health care for every sniffle and sneeze, and even a TV to watch, cable included. No bills to pay, no worries....just living it up because, hey, it's certainly better than what he left in the first place, isn't it? Heck, with such provisions, they'd all come illegally!! I'd do it too!
And to Aurelie, sorry, but I know too many foreigners who are legal citizens in this country. And your stating that you have to marry someone is a misnomer, since that is not the case according to immigration law. Just because you marry an American doesn't automatically make you one, and you can and will be deported anyway if you don't apply for citizenship.
I'm all for foreigners coming here to make a better life for themselves, but they have to do it legally, not continue being a burden on those who are citizens.
Do you believe that current immigration law needs reformed?
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