Good grief, here we go again! Not one single reputable translation adopts such a rendering [out of approximately 1000 linguistical scholars]....but YOU see something that they missed????
Man, at least come up w/ something new. The verse could not be plainer..............
Easy....go to the Greek text instead of the translators.
They do the same with Oneness passages.Why do you not translate them yourself anyway? Why just pick up a version including KJV and not check the Greek to see if they properly translated the passages?
There are several renderings of the words in the translations. The translators usually pick the one that fits their own doctrines. Its not an issue.
When man and women is being spoken of then the words should be rendered man and woman. When husband and wife are spoken of then the translations should be rendered husband and wife. Every man is not an authority over every woman. Common sense tells us that. Also the Apostle Paul does not contradict himself in scripture or teaching. He would not on one hand allow women to prophesy and in another area deny them that opportunity.
We need to rightly divide the word. Never was it in the law ever commanded that the women keep silence in the church. If we look at the temple then we would see that there was a court of the women. So it sure wasn't an issue in the law.
Straw man? Is this your NEW fanciful word you are just throwing out?
Saying historical-cultural context is not part of the exegetical process is false. To elevate lexicons as the "primary exegetical tool" is false. There are many more things, but alas I'll stop at that. Please tell me what the straw man is here? Also tell me what "apologetics" have to do with anything here? Or "apologetic tricks?" lol
Stick to the Text... again you posture as a exegete, but don't seem to understand the whole process of interpreting scripture.
Sheesh, this is about the 4th time that I've told you that history-cultural does indeed play a part in [the "whole process"] exegesis, but they do not celebrate the authority that Scripture itself does. What in the world can you not understand about this??
And don't blame me if you're obviously new to apologetics. You're the 1st person to EVER say that "apologetics has nothing to do w/ the conversation"??? Not real sure what to say about that one!
Sheesh, this is about the 4th time that I've told you that history-cultural does indeed play a part in [the "whole process"] exegesis, but they do not celebrate the authority that Scripture itself does. What in the world can you not understand about this??
And don't blame me if you're obviously new to apologetics. You're the 1st person to EVER say that "apologetics has nothing to do w/ the conversation"??? Not real sure what to say about that one!
Gotta' go.................................
New to it? Indeed, you are ignorant of that. Want to drop names?
Celebrate it above Scripture? The way you describe the historical-cultural context leads me to believe you see these as methods competing with each other, one supreme over the other, instead of a whole process. Plain enough put?
Easy....go to the Greek text instead of the translators.
What do you think the translators used? You apparently have not discipled yourself in textual criticisms very much. There are many literal translations out there [NKJV, NASB, ESV, etc.]...& NONE of them adopt your peculiar rendering. Hmmmmm.
They do the same with Oneness passages.Why do you not translate them yourself anyway? Why just pick up a version including KJV and not check the Greek to see if they properly translated the passages?
There are several renderings of the words in the translations. The translators usually pick the one that fits their own doctrines. Its not an issue.
When man and women is being spoken of then the words should be rendered man and woman. When husband and wife are spoken of then the translations should be rendered husband and wife. Every man is not an authority over every woman. Common sense tells us that. Also the Apostle Paul does not contradict himself in scripture or teaching. He would not on one hand allow women to prophesy and in another area deny them that opportunity.
We need to rightly divide the word. Never was it in the law ever commanded that the women keep silence in the church. If we look at the temple then we would see that there was a court of the women. So it sure wasn't an issue in the law.
Which is pecisely the reason that this isn't talking about the Mosaic Law! Tks. for the help!
And I've defined prophecy till I could drop dead around here. Sheesh, believe what you will, I'll stick to the Bible.....including I Tim. 2:11-15, I Cor. 14:34, which could not be plainer!
The context was women keeping silent "In the church"....not "the temple".
New to it? Indeed, you are ignorant of that. Want to drop names?
Celebrate it above Scripture? The way you describe the historical-cultural context leads me to believe you see these as methods competing with each other, one supreme over the other, instead of a whole process. Plain enough put?
I see Scripture as authoritative in nature, but not "history"...plain enough put?
yes, you may Timmy...I wept and told her that if her mother was lost then someone else was lost for not going to her...I am a believer in Acts 2:38...however to whom much is given much is required...t those that are given little, little is required..these things of destiny we must leave in the hands of a just God I just do all I can to reach every person possible in my life time with the means I have...
Do you believe that is true for everyone that dies lost? That someone else was supposed to tell them how to be saved, and didn't, and that someone is therefor also lost?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Do you believe that is true for everyone that dies lost? That someone else was supposed to tell them how to be saved, and didn't, and that someone is therefor also lost?
Timmy, I really don´t know how God sees everything...for He sees the whole picture. I TRY TO STAY FOCUSED on the fact he called me and I must do all I can. I am certain many do not hear because of those that do not go...I weep over the great knowledge we have and the gross darkness others live in. As long as I am able I will reach out to others.
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Speaking of "Ignorant"............................
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey
Respectfully, plainly ignorant.
I see, you can respect someone & yet throw out insults at the same time? From your demeanor, you're most likely a trinitarian [probably a Calvinist, but may be wrong].
We are talking about "interpreting" Scripture. Remember that?
Yea', such as "I do not allow a woamn to teach, or to excercise authority over a man."....Remember that?
There is no meaning without context. Ask the translators what they used.
Ughhh, the translators used the existing Greek manuscripts. From there, they employed Greek grammatical rules, context, etc. Where did I ever say that context is irrelevant? Indeed, I appeal to Scriptural context repeatedly since word definitions & syntax mean what they do accordingly. But, context is doctrinal [particulary the passages at hand]....and not ALWAYS culturally relevant, though culture can certainly flow into it, yet I would stop short of saying that culture has the ability to render a doctrinal passage inapplicable.
This is about the 5th time that I've explained this to you & yet you just kep hurling out insults...which reveals your "Christian" spirit????? I've repeatedly told you that I care less about your ad hominem [do I need to explain this one to you also?] attacks, but rather just the text.
So, my dear Watson, back to the texts of I Tim. 2. I'm willing to listen if you have something textually relevant to say. Otherwise, if you just keep up w/ your usual pomp, I'll simply start ignoring you.
Acts 21:9: And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. Here we have a quartet of gospel women, who while living out their lives among heathen neighbors, continued doing God’s will.
Notice these “girls” were in the company of Paul who said in 1 Corinthians 14:34,35: “women keep silence in the church.” Along with their father Philip, they were prophetesses. Do you think Paul said girls, don’t prophecy; it is not permitted for you to speak? Of course not!
To prophesy is to preach according to Webster (National Dictionary of English Language P. F. Collier & Son, New York 1937). Prophetess “female preacher” (Young’s Analytical Concordance pg. 781).
Some are quick to say they prophesied only in homes, and not in church, but Ephesians 14:12 says, “Even so ye, for as much as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.”
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