... of death for us? The explanation of this seems to be wide and varying.
I have this simple question for those who are Universalists and others in the Is Hell real debate..... It also concerns some forms of belief of imputed rightouessness/justification and substitutionary atonement.
Since we "deserved" death and Jesus took upon the penalty of death in exchange. Why is Jesus now not still experiencing such a penalty? Is not the penalty of sin BEYOND this physical death into eternity? If the penalty was death why such a turn around to be resurrected? Whether he could raise himself or not, where is this equal exchange of death for life?
Could this mean the only aspect of punishment was only to DEATH "once" in this life and then nothingness, which was the fuel of the Pharisee and Sadduccee debate? Thus annihilation is the true punishment?
Christ died for those who would "believe" on him. To them he gave power to become the sons of God. Dwelling outside of Christ is damnation, in Christ salvation.
A true understanding of biblical judgment does not teach eternal (as meaning; without an end). Much of the judgment Israel experienced, has already taken place.
The soul that sins shall surely die. The reward of the wicked is temporal (as in this life), the reward of the righteous is eternal. Eternal life is a "gift" God gives to those who have the life of Christ in them.
... of death for us? The explanation of this seems to be wide and varying.
I have this simple question for those who are Universalists and others in the Is Hell real debate..... It also concerns some forms of belief of imputed rightouessness/justification and substitutionary atonement.
Since we "deserved" death and Jesus took upon the penalty of death in exchange. Why is Jesus now not still experiencing such a penalty? Is not the penalty of sin BEYOND this physical death into eternity? If the penalty was death why such a turn around to be resurrected? Whether he could raise himself or not, where is this equal exchange of death for life?
Could this mean the only aspect of punishment was only to DEATH "once" in this life and then nothingness, which was the fuel of the Pharisee and Sadduccee debate? Thus annihilation is the true punishment?
By over coming death and the grave he became the author of Eternal Life. If he did not raise from the grave, having the keys, we would have no hope.
It was not just his death, but his resurrection
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
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There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
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If you where just sentenced to eternal life in prison. I came along and said Delta. I have a clean record and I will serve your time for you while you live free on the other side of the fence. You get excited accept my exchange and three days later your walking along and I say HEY! You look at me and go... uh I thought your where in prison? I say oh that... well I can walk out anytime I want. Is that really accepting the offense and punishment? Do you think the judge will say that was correct exchange?
The issue here is either with the view many have of substitutionary atonement or our view of the penalty or maybe both. I think both but I wanted others input.
The wages of sin is death, Jesus paid the awful penalty, destruction and death. He paid the price of the sins of the whole world, reconciling the whole world to God.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
the judge could accept my taking your penalty but me not DOING THE TIME is not TAKING your penalty. I am out acting like a free man.
Jesus took our penalty and He paid it, which proves that the wages of sin is not eternal damnation. He is not in Hell.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Jesus took our penalty and He paid it, which proves that the wages of sin is not eternal damnation. He is not in Hell.
Thanks was hoping you would respond. If Jesus paid our penalty as many preach or took upon himself the wrath of God as some teach etc... I can only see true eternal death or UR as the options. IF you agree with the mindset that he took the punishment or wrath in his death. I don't but that another view. Thus those like Lutzer would have to explain this depending on there view of the result of eschatological judgment.
By over coming death and the grave he became the author of Eternal Life. If he did not raise from the grave, having the keys, we would have no hope.
It was not just his death, but his resurrection
I would agree but my point is concerning the view of the penalty in which he took. If it is simply "death" in this life and as many teach on TBN(totaly brainless nuts) he really took upon God's wrath.
Last edited by TheLegalist; 03-06-2010 at 07:38 PM.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
So what would be the wrath that Jesus endured IF if he took upon our penalty?
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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