The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

[TheLegalist]

I will ask this again from post 690....

Is Christs command only forensic or intrinsic to salvation and eternal life?

oh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Joh 15:7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
Joh 15:8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.
Joh 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
Joh 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lays down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.
Joh 15:15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.
Joh 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
Joh 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.


What about
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

What about obedience?

Mat 10:38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Losing your life completely?

Mat 19:16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?"
Mat 19:17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."
Mat 19:18 He said to him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Mat 19:20 The young man said to him, "All these I have kept. What do I still lack?"
Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

What about keep the commandments and negating all to follow Christ.

Joh 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

obeying?

Rom 2:6 He14 will reward 15 each one according to his works :16
Rom 2:7 eternal life to those who by perseverance in good works seek glory and honor and immortality,


what about BY perserverance in good works?

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

What about commandments?

[KWSS1976]

dang Jeff you posting every 2min...lol

[sbo1971]

I guess that little statement in the Bible that says "baptism doth both now save us" means nothing or is not for those educated folks today

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by sbo1971

I guess that little statement in the Bible that says "baptism doth both now save us" means nothing or is not for those educated folks today

I guess proof-texting means a lot for those uneducated folks, doesn't it.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by sbo1971

I guess that little statement in the Bible that says "baptism doth both now save us" means nothing or is not for those educated folks today

I agree. I said the same thing earlier. And that is not prooftexting either.

Folks can say all they want, but the issue is that faith and repentance are steps. So there are no one steppers, anyway. And baptism and Spirit infilling are no more salvation by works than they are.

[Timmy]

Wait, what? God is directing it all? What do you mean by that, exactly? And is He doing a good job, so far?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Wait, what? God is directing it all? What do you mean by that, exactly? And is He doing a good job, so far?

Let me share a little account of what happened with me just in the past month to explain my point. (I am dying to share this and will take this opportunity to do so, and apologize for getting off topic for a bit).

PRAISE BREAK , EVERYONE!

A situation that occurred a handful of years ago, before I ever came here last October to minister, in our local church involving a married brother and sister. That situation required things to be made right with another couple who have long since lost contact with the local couple. This has been years that this loss of contact occurred. People moved, phone numbers changed, etc., etc.

In the meantime, we move here last October. In fact the former pastor here told me about this other couple whom he would like to contact and get things right, since the last time they had contact viewpoints were quite different, but light was realized later and the pastor wanted to see things smoothed out and made right.

My son had moved up with us from the USA back home to Canada. He stayed in the nearby city while we entered pastorate in this smaller town. My son stayed with my older son and his family til he could find work. Could not find work for months, and time came for my younger son to obtain his own dwelling and move out. Did not have a place to move into. So, I called the pastor where both my sons attend church in the city.

"Have a place for my son to rent or board, on short notice -- two days?" lol

"Will contact the congregation by email and see who might have a place."

Two days went by and no place, so we pick him up and bring him here home with us for the weekend. He has to go back to work in three more days, but the day after we pick him up they find a place for him to stay in the city. We take him to the city to meet the people and have him ready for work as well. THE PEOPLE ARE THE COUPLE WHO LOST CONTACT WITH OUR LOCAL COUPLE, and I am thrown in the midst of it all and hear the whole story.

Turned out that an open door of reconciliation and forgiveness were always there during the last several years between the contact the two couples had with each other. Out of 700,000 people, I land in the couple's home on a spur-of-the-moment email response for my son to get a place to rent. This couple in the city had only started going to my son's church a year ago.

Everyone is feeling joy and praising God and GOD IS DIRECTING THE WHOLE THING AND DOING A GOOD JOB OF IT! Sorta reminds me of the incident I told you about where a man bought one of 22 books of mine that I sold over the net, and I meet him two airports away from Canada down in Phoenix sitting on the seat beside mine in the plane!

I can only speak from experience, that God directs these sorts of things, including the example I gave to you, and does an awesome job of it!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Let me share a little account of what happened with me just in the past month to explain my point. (I am dying to share this and will take this opportunity to do so, and apologize for getting off topic for a bit).

PRAISE BREAK , EVERYONE!

A situation that occurred a handful of years ago, before I ever came here last October to minister, in our local church involving a married brother and sister. That situation required things to be made right with another couple who have long since lost contact with the local couple. This has been years that this loss of contact occurred. People moved, phone numbers changed, etc., etc.

In the meantime, we move here last October. In fact the former pastor here told me about this other couple whom he would like to contact and get things right, since the last time they had contact viewpoints were quite different, but light was realized later and the pastor wanted to see things smoothed out and made right.

My son had moved up with us from the USA back home to Canada. He stayed in the nearby city while we entered pastorate in this smaller town. My son stayed with my older son and his family til he could find work. Could not find work for months, and time came for my younger son to obtain his own dwelling and move out. Did not have a place to move into. So, I called the pastor where both my sons attend church in the city.

"Have a place for my son to rent or board, on short notice -- two days?" lol

"Will contact the congregation by email and see who might have a place."

Two days went by and no place, so we pick him up and bring him here home with us for the weekend. He has to go back to work in three more days, but the day after we pick him up they find a place for him to stay in the city. We take him to the city to meet the people and have him ready for work as well. THE PEOPLE ARE THE COUPLE WHO LOST CONTACT WITH OUR LOCAL COUPLE, and I am thrown in the midst of it all and hear the whole story.

Turned out that an open door of reconciliation and forgiveness were always there during the last several years between the contact the two couples had with each other. Out of 700,000 people, I land in the couple's home on a spur-of-the-moment email response for my son to get a place to rent. This couple in the city had only started going to my son's church a year ago.

Everyone is feeling joy and praising God and GOD IS DIRECTING THE WHOLE THING AND DOING A GOOD JOB OF IT! Sorta reminds me of the incident I told you about where a man bought one of 22 books of mine that I sold over the net, and I meet him two airports away from Canada down in Phoenix sitting on the seat beside mine in the plane!

I can only speak from experience, that God directs these sorts of things, including the example I gave to you, and does an awesome job of it!

I'm despise and am repulsed by manipulated and contrived "Praise Breaks", so I won't be joining in.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I'm despise and am repulsed by manipulated and contrived "Praise Breaks", so I won't be joining in.

ROFL!

[mfblume]

I preached last Sunday on the cross. I love the preaching of the cross.

Elisha passed by Shunnem many times, and a woman there noted to her husband that they should build an extension on their home for a room for the prophet to rest in when he would pass by. Elisha came and took opportunity and rested at their home.

This speaks of the cross. Elisha stands as Jesus Christ in this story. Christ laid down his life and was laid to rest in the tomb. Sleep in the bible stands as death. So the place where Elisha slept stands as the tomb of Christ.

The prophet then prophesied about the Sunnemite woman having a son. This is like the work of the cross being followed by the promise of children born into the kingdom!

The woman bears a child at the foretold time and the child grows. Time comes when the boy is old enough to work with his father and reap crops. This stands for the sou8l born again who is mature enough to start working for the Lord and win the lost. Reaping.

An affliction attacks the boy's head, and he hollers, "My head my head!"

When the enemy attacks us, it is in our MINDS and THOUGHTS. People backslide due to attacks in their minds. Paul taught about casting down IMAGINATIONS (a "mind issue) that war against the KNOWLEDGE (a "mind" issue again) of God.

They took the boy to his mother, as the mother stands for the church.

The boy died on her knees, and she laid him in Elisha's bed where he slept.

The church teaches people that even after they are saved, they need to go back to the place where Jesus laid in Death. And by going back there, they need to identify in their hearts with Christ's death all over again, just as when they were first saved. They need to go over the truth of the cross in their minds when the enemy attacks, since the attack is in the mind and the mind must be renewed and aligned with truth so as to cast down the attacks in the mind from the devil.

The woman leaves the boy alone in the room. The church teaches people to learn to be alone with the Lord in their time of renewing their minds and aligning their minds with truth so as to defeat the attack of the enemy and overcome.

Elisha returns and enters the room and shuts the door behind him. When we renew our minds to the truths of what occurred in our lives when we were united to Christ in His death, back to the place where he laid, the Lord comes in and something wonderful occurs.

Elisha put his mouth on the boy's mouth, his eyes on the boy's eyes and his hands on the boy's hands. This stands for IDENTIFICATION WITH CHRIST IN HIS DEATH to the extent that we realize HE DIED AS US when He died.

He took our place to such an extent that His eyes that closed in death must be considered as our eyes. His mouth that became silent in death were as good as our mouths. His hands that sopped touching and lay lifeless were as good as our hands. He died AS US.

That is how we first got saved. Identification with Christ in His death which occurred in baptism into His death, as noted in Romans 6:3. THIS IS HOW BAPTISM FITS THE PICTURE. It is identification with Christ in his death.

And we need to go over this in our hearts everytime the enemy attacks us, hopefully until it is so ingrained in us that our understanding of this remains intact and we overcome attacks from even getting us down again.

THE CROSS IS FOR FAR MORE THAN getting us saved. We need its truth for the rest of our lives in this world, and in this way we claim the blood, as the old timers used to say. Pursuing this understanding in our minds when attacked is actually what they mean by claiming the blood.

And then the boy sneezed seven times.

Sneezing is physically the clearance from the head of blockages and obstructions. Spiritually, sneezing would stand for clearing the thoughts and lies and misconceptions the devil used in inflicting our minds to overcome us. And by identification with Christ in His death during these times of attack, these obstructions are PERFECTLY (Number 7 stands for completion) cleared out!

THE CROSS ALONE SAVES AND CONTINUES TO SAVE!

(NOTE: AS MUCH AS THE CROSS SAVES BY OUR REPEATED IDENTIFICATION WITH CHRIST IN THE WAY DESCRIBED ABOVE, WHILE THE ACT OF IDENTIFICATION IS NOT SALVATION IN ITSELF, OUR BAPTISM THAT OCCURRED WHEN WE FIRST WERE SAVED FROM SIN IS LIKEWISE NOT A "SALVATION BY WORKS" EFFORT.)