The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save - Page 20

KWSS1976 · #**191** 03-31-2010, 01:08 PM

legalist were can you find this diffrence? If it is so clear there is one?

mfblume · #**192** 03-31-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Jeffery just sent me a text message saying that "yes, of course" repentance is a part of admitting that one is in the condition of the soul described in Job 9:20 and they (we!) must repent lest we end up in the condition of the souls described in Luke 16:15.

In any case, we are completely dependent upon Jesus Christ to actually save us.

* There's a "One Stepper" list that we all secretly subscribe to. We run all of our posts past Steve Epley. If he squawks we go ahead and post them on AFF.

Why did he not say that to me, then? Anyway, Spirit baptism is as involved as repentance. If we say we need to repent then that opens the concept up that the cross PROVIDES for us to obey and be saved. Salvation is not possible without obedience. But that obedience is made in faith that HIS ACT directly saves, and not our act of obedience. We act BECAUSE His action saves. not because our action saves. I think y'all are missing that distinction.

pelathais · #**193** 03-31-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Abraham HAD TO BE CIRCUMCIZED if he had the faith that he would be. Faith THAT WORKS is what saves. So we cannot separate the work that follows faith from it. I am not saying the act of baptism in itself is soteriological as if it were the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration. But would God have made Abraham righteous had he seen that Abraham did not have the faith that WOULD ACT in obedience? People cannot see the heart that God sees. The one stepper acceptance of Christ to be saved IS AN ACT OF OBEDIENCE, TOO, YOU KNOW.

Abraham HAD TO SHOW A WILLINGNESS TO SACRIFICE ISAAC... He had to love his wife, for that matter.

But... Abraham was "JUSTIFIED" long before he was ever circumcised. This thread is about the "One Stepper" understanding of justification/salvation.

Abraham was justified and accounted righteous long before he did any of the "works" that we associate with his life. That is the simple and plain teaching of the Bible. Romans 4.

pelathais · #**194** 03-31-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Abraham HAD TO SHOW A WILLINGNESS TO SACRIFICE ISAAC... He had to love his wife, for that matter.

But... Abraham was "JUSTIFIED" long before he was ever circumcised. This thread is about the "One Stepper" understanding of justification/salvation.

Abraham was justified and accounted righteous long before he did any of the "works" that we associate with his life. That is the simple and plain teaching of the Bible. Romans 4.

Why are some of you guys so dodgy about this? What are you trying to hide or possibly avoid?

It's so easy to say, "Abraham was justified by faith." Try saying that to yourself a few times.

TheLegalist · #**195** 03-31-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Abraham HAD TO SHOW A WILLINGNESS TO SACRIFICE ISAAC... He had to love his wife, for that matter.

But... Abraham was "JUSTIFIED" long before he was ever circumcised. This thread is about the "One Stepper" understanding of justification/salvation.

Abraham was justified and accounted righteous long before he did any of the "works" that we associate with his life. That is the simple and plain teaching of the Bible. Romans 4.

depends on what is meant by JUSTIFIED.... in the since of justice done as in judge... YES! Was righteous FORCED on Abraham? No! God cimply judged his response "just" thus God executed judgment of his actions. Pretty simple! Thus

Gen 15:6 Abram believed20 the LORD, and the LORD21 considered his response of faith as proof of genuine loyalty NET (TL

r as righteous according to other version)

Jeffrey · #**196** 03-31-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

That implies you propose a circular argument. Paul preached what you believe so you believe what Paul preached. Prove it.

Do you believe we have to repent or not?

Of course I believe we must repent. That's Bible. We repent BECAUSE OF faith, not FOR FAITH. Faith in God is what saves us.

I could care less about attitudes. I want to preach what the bible preaches. Let's talk bible.

AMEN

So do you believe repentance is necessary? A simple yes or no will do. Then we can go from there.

Let's go from there. And while you're at it, try answering the q's I offered as well. You skipped them on the previous response.

TheLegalist · #**197** 03-31-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Why are some of you guys so dodgy about this? What are you trying to hide or possibly avoid?

It's so easy to say, "Abraham was justified by faith." Try saying that to yourself a few times.

HIS "FAITH" WAS CONSIDERED JUST!! Just as God judges ALL ACTIONS JUST OR UNJUST!

Jeffrey · #**198** 03-31-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

simple answer yes or no..... thanks! I was not making a statement but wanting a response TO respond.

Oh but his response was grand. Will you interact with it?

Jeffrey · #**199** 03-31-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Abraham HAD TO BE CIRCUMCIZED if he had the faith that he would be. Faith THAT WORKS is what saves. So we cannot separate the work that follows faith from it. I am not saying the act of baptism in itself is soteriological as if it were the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration. But would God have made Abraham righteous had he seen that Abraham did not have the faith that WOULD ACT in obedience? People cannot see the heart that God sees. The one stepper acceptance of Christ to be saved IS AN ACT OF OBEDIENCE, TOO, YOU KNOW.

No, but it is critical (according to you as well) where we establish salvation. When does it happen? It happens at faith. The others are a response to faith, including repentance. You wouldn't repent to Jesus if you didn't believe who he is, or believe he could help you.

Of course we believe in obedience. Let's not play games on that. But I feel it's quite critical where we believe Christ saves us. Not by our doing, but by our believing. Our doing is always connected to our believe, and our lack of doing (sinning) always connected to an issue of disbelief.

Jeffrey · #**200** 03-31-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

HIS "FAITH" WAS CONSIDERED JUST!! Just as God judges ALL ACTIONS JUST OR UNJUST!

If your measuring stick is actions, then we are all doomed.