The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save - Page 26

Hoovie · #**251** 03-31-2010, 04:42 PM

Just as I am without one plea,

But that thy blood, was shed for me...

a few find their way up front. Even more slip out the back...

Jeffrey · #**252** 03-31-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

"Oh whyyyyyyyy not tonighttttttttt, oh, whyyyyyy not tonightttttttttt....."

ha. Oh, you may not be old enough to be my mother, but you just took me back on that one. hahaha.

*AQuietPlace* · #**253** 03-31-2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

ha. Oh, you may not be old enough to be my mother, but you just took me back on that one. hahaha.

It took me waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back, too! When I was very, very young.

Pressing-On · #**254** 03-31-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

But they won't work together when people say that they have ""purchased" their own salvation (as TheLegalist said earlier). It won't work. You will fall into the trap that Paul warns us about - you will "frustrate the grace of God..." unless you understand that salvation is a gracious gift.

You may even sink so low as to compare our gracious Lord to someone who dispenses salvation like "sticking a sucker in a bumb's (SIC) mouth..."

The whole theology of the "Christianity Without the Cross" movement is twisted askew because the cross is missing. You haven't "rolled it all up" at all unless you see that we are justified by our faith in what Jesus Christ did freely for us.

I can tell that you guys don't really want to talk about it. That is something you should have considered before jumping into the thread. But now that you're here (off and on) - why not accepting that free gift? It's yours simply for the asking. All of the work has already been done and the full price has been paid!

Talk about what, Pel? Something I don't see nor believe? How can I talk about that?

The Bible says we are saved:

If we call on His name
By His life
By Hope
That He was raised from the dead
By His grace
Having a love of truth
By His mercy

All of these elements involve all that He is, all that he offers, all that He has done, all that He calls us to do.

How can you only center on the cross alone? It's the basis of our faith, but it does not save us alone. If it saved us alone, we wouldn't have need to read: II Thess 1:8; I Peter 1:17.

I believed when I was daubing Holy Water on my forehead, chest and shoulders. I believed when I was kneeling at confessional. I believed when I was talking Communion. I believed when I was lighting a candle for a prayer. I wasn't saved.

pelathais · #**255** 03-31-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Approaching the organ bench and warming up some good mood music

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

"Oh whyyyyyyyy not tonighttttttttt, oh, whyyyyyy not tonightttttttttt....."

I actually got fired from a position I held at a "Three Stepper" church for making that kind of an appeal.

The pastor was using position and influence to hide the fact that his buddy pastor was sneaking into our town for weekends with his secretary. The pastor's wife had demanded a meeting with "three other ministers as witnesses" so they could watch as she excommunicated me and barely restrained herself from slapping me across the face (Instead she just raked her nails across my nose).

In the end, one of their loudest complaints was that I "talked to them like they were sinners..." That is, I used the same appeals as above in asking them to repent and turn their lives over to God.

That, and they complained that I was "hindering revival..." After I was kicked out the truth about the adulterer was found out and more than half the church left. Then the whole place went on this slow spiral of death until a new pastor was finally found. Several good men came, took one look around and beat it out of town! It took years to find someone who would take the church.

Then the "new guy" kicked the old pastor out... cleverly, and without coming right and saying it. In fact, over time he has shown the former pastor more respect than the old guy ever deserved. Once he got the place cleaned up they started to see new souls again. Turns out all I was "hindering" was a bunch of sleeping around.

*** One note: I've told this story several times on here over the past 3+ years. My personal identity is known, even before I used my real name as a screen name. I'm not making any of this up.

If you don't get the cross right, you won't get anything else right either. If you haven't gotten the cross right, you need to go back to the cross and get yourself right.

Taking the Cross out of Christianity isn't an option. Either Jesus died for us while we were yet sinners and could do nothing for ourselves, or we are still lost.

Jeffrey · #**256** 03-31-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Talk about what, Pel? Something I don't see nor believe? How can I talk about that?

The Bible says we are saved:

If we call on His name
By His life
By Hope
That He was raised from the dead
By His grace
Having a love of truth
By His mercy

All of these elements involve all that He is, all that he offers, all that He has done, all that He calls us to do.

How can you only center on the cross alone? It's the basis of our faith, but it does not save us alone. If it saved us alone, we wouldn't have need to read: I Thess 1:8; I Peter 1:17.

I believed when I was daubing Holy Water on my forehead, chest and shoulders. I believed when I was kneeling at confessional. I believed when I was talking Communion. I believed when I was lighting a candle for a prayer. I wasn't saved.

Wow...

Michael The Disciple · #**257** 03-31-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

pel said

Taking the Cross out of Christianity isn't an option. Either Jesus died for us while we were yet sinners and could do nothing for ourselves, or we are still lost.

Strawman alert!

No one has suggested taking the cross out of Christianity. Its JESUS who saves not the cross.

Whatever he says about being saved or being a Christian would be correct. He obviously says there is more.

The apostle John made this statement:

8: And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 1 John 5:8

They agree to do what?

Save us. Make us a new creation.

Jeffrey · #**258** 03-31-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Strawman alert!

No one has suggested taking the cross out of Christianity. Its JESUS who saves not the cross.

Whatever he says about being saved or being a Christian would be correct. He obviously says there is more.

The apostle John made this statement:

8: And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 1 John 5:8

They agree to do what?

Save us. Make us a new creation.

Jesus saves us by the cross. Jesus without a cross would not save you, unless you were Divinely elected by the Almighty I suppose.

pelathais · #**259** 03-31-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Talk about what, Pel? Something I don't see nor believe? How can I talk about that?

The Bible says we are saved:

If we call on His name
By His life
By Hope
That He was raised from the dead
By His grace
Having a love of truth
By His mercy

All of these elements involve all that He is, all that he offers, all that He has done, all that He calls us to do.

How can you only center on the cross alone? It's the basis of our faith, but it does not save us alone. If it saved us alone, we wouldn't have need to read: I Thess 1:8; I Peter 1:17.

I believed when I was daubing Holy Water on my forehead, chest and shoulders. I believed when I was kneeling at confessional. I believed when I was talking Communion. I believed when I was lighting a candle for a prayer. I wasn't saved.

You've moved past the cross too quickly.

I center on the "cross alone" (as you put it) because everything else flows out from the cross.

I don't know if there's a typo in your first scripture reference, but yes, you (or the Thessalonians) probably shouldn't be "sounding out" about their faith all over ancient Greece until they got the doctrine of the atonement correct.

And... 1 Peter 1:17 (concerning works) is predicated by 1 Peter 1:18-10:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."

Peter has to "take them back to the cross" to remind them about the "why" that goes into their works.

Pressing-On · #**260** 03-31-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

You've moved past the cross too quickly.

I center on the "cross alone" (as you put it) because everything else flows out from the cross.

I believe that, but I don't center on the cross alone. I just believe everything flows out from there. Many of the posts have been making it sound as though that is all we need to do - believe that He did die on a cross. There is more to believing. That's like people claiming to be Christians when they do not live a Christian life. They have no dedication to the Lord, but they are not Atheists. It doesn't add up.

Quote:

I don't know if there's a typo in your first scripture reference, but yes, you (or the Thessalonians) probably shouldn't be "sounding out" about their faith all over ancient Greece until they got the doctrine of the atonement correct.

It was a typo. It should be II Thess 1:8, not I Thess. But you had one referencing "copulation", in an earlier post, so I don't know what that was about. LOL!

Quote:

And... 1 Peter 1:17 (concerning works) is predicated by 1 Peter 1:18-10:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."

Peter has to "take them back to the cross" to remind them about the "why" that goes into their works.

Yes, this is true, but there are works involved - faith without works is dead. It's not the issue of who is forcing "unbiblical" works. It is about there are works to be done on our part, according to the Word of God.