The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save - Page 87

notofworks · #**861** 04-10-2010, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Heretical? What is heretical, or something like it (lol), is you claiming I believe we can earn salvation and we can improve on ourselves.

Like I said, righteousness is a gift and is REQUIRED! So what is wrong about the Holy Ghost being a gift and required?

You now are hereby granted three raspberries.

You said it Mike, come on! Own it!

I connected the dots of:

1) Tongues are required for salvation;
2) You couldn't speak in tongues for quite a while;
3) You "let go of sin";
4) And because you did, you spoke in tongues.

Sounds like to me you improved yourself and got saved because of it. Where am I wrong? Which one of those four points isn't true?

By my calculations, it's already Sunday, your time, and like the bible says, "If it can't be done by midnight, it can't be done!"

You need to go to bed instead of fighting with me!

revrandy · #**862** 04-10-2010, 10:17 PM

AFF- Catholicism 101.....wow...

pelathais · #**863** 04-10-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revrandy

AFF- Catholicism 101.....wow...

Really... all of this baptismal regenerationism is getting to you too?

revrandy · #**864** 04-10-2010, 10:28 PM

I'm just glad I wasn't left on the cross or in the tomb.....I'm glad I have experienced His Resurrection and can walk in the newness of life.....

pelathais · #**865** 04-10-2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revrandy

I'm just glad I wasn't left on the cross or in the tomb.....I'm glad I have experienced His Resurrection and can walk in the newness of life.....

Amen! Bro.

But you don't deny the efficacious work of the cross, do you? You do preach the cross of Jesus Christ? (1 Corinthians 1:17-18), Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2).

You are in compliance with the UPC's Articles of Faith? That the act of sincere repentance and faith in Jesus Christ accomplishes "the remission of sins" and NOT water baptism?

notofworks · #**866** 04-10-2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revrandy

I'm just glad I wasn't left on the cross or in the tomb.....I'm glad I have experienced His Resurrection and can walk in the newness of life.....

Me too! Looks like we're theologically identical!

mfblume · #**867** 04-12-2010, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

You said it Mike, come on! Own it!

I connected the dots of:

1) Tongues are required for salvation;
2) You couldn't speak in tongues for quite a while;
3) You "let go of sin";
4) And because you did, you spoke in tongues.

Sounds like to me you improved yourself and got saved because of it. Where am I wrong? Which one of those four points isn't true?

By my calculations, it's already Sunday, your time, and like the bible says, "If it can't be done by midnight, it can't be done!"

You need to go to bed instead of fighting with me!

I honestly do not believe you realize what salvation by works is about. You consider the term "action" and immediately think of salvation by works, when that is only speaking about actions that merit righteousness without any reliance solely upon the work of the cross.

If you believe baptism and Spirit infilling being necessary are salvation by works, regardless of the all-important factor about whether or not they merit righteousness without reliance on the cross, then you contradict yourself in demand repentance and faith.

You are not reading what we are saying. Repentance is no less an act than baptism.

But I have said it enough that someone wanting to know what I believe would have gotten it by now.

mfblume · #**868** 04-12-2010, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Really... all of this baptismal regenerationism is getting to you too?

How can honesty be wiped away so easily by you guys! lol. You do not understand what Paul referred to by salvation by works, and you do not understand what baptismal regeneration actually is, which is NOT what ANYONE HERE is espousing.

Read it ---- baptismal regeneration is done in order to CREATE FAITH, not because of faith. Baptismal regeneration is the reason catholics baptize infants. Do I agree with baptizing infants? No. Why? Because that is baptismal regeneration. One needs NO FAITH when baptized in baptismal regeneration. And the all important fact is that WE DO INDEED NEED FAITH when baptized since the ACTION DOES NOT SAVE.

Paul taught detailingly about baptism putting us into the death of Christ in Romans 6. Paul said that only so many of us who were baptized into Christ were baptized into his death. In other words, without baptism into Christ. His death is not counted as your deaths, and you are not saved.

Rom 6:3-6 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: (6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

You can jump and splash in the puddles of the milk of the word and never get into this meat, but if you are going to really deal with the issue, you have to study Romans 6. And Romans 6 clearly shows that baptism into His death is absolutely necessary. Peter told us in his epistle that baptism saves, and rather than accuse people of prooftexting, explain how in the world Peter meant that if it did not mean it is part of salvation.

But this will be swept beneath the carpet, too.

mfblume · #**869** 04-12-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

The efforts of anyone, including me in my baptism, are not actions that directly make me righteous. Saying someone preached to me so that I could be saved, and that without such a person I would not be saved, is not salvation by works that render us righteous in and of themselves. Everyone here is missing the point that salvation by works means works in and of themselves renders us righteous.

This was the all-erring problem of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Acquire a knowledge of what is good and what is evil and utilize that knowledge to make yourself righteous.

Folks, do a study on righteousness and how it is acquired, and realize that salvation by works is directly contradictory to the truth of how we become righteous. Action is fine so long as it does not propose to make us righteous in and of itself. Until people learn that, they will never get the truth of the picture. It seems people against baptism as part of salvation simply refuse to deal with that all-important and all-determining issue, and they miss it everytime we speak of it.

Changing your position as you've done is great!

I missed this remark from you, Pelathais. I never changed position. I always believed this!

Honestly, I truly think you folks who call yourself one-steppers (contradicted by the fact you believe faith and repentance - two steps - are necessary for salvation, no matter how you slice it) do not have an inkling about what Paul meant about salvation by works as I explained it correctly above.

Study righteousness and its place in the Kingdom and study Paul's explanation of it, and you may get it. But after all our explanation, I doubt it. It seems you do not want to get it.

pelathais · #**870** 04-12-2010, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

How can honesty be wiped away so easily by you guys! lol.

Thems fighting words, and you haven't proved yourself to possess the mettle to challenge my honesty. You really want to call me out? Son?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You do not understand what Paul referred to by salvation by works, and you do not understand what baptismal regeneration actually is, which is NOT what ANYONE HERE is espousing.

Read it ---- baptismal regeneration is done in order to CREATE FAITH, not because of faith.

But this will be swept beneath the carpet, too.

You know Mike, if you actually took time to pay attention to what is going on around you and also spent a bit more time in the Word than pompously pontificating you might begin to make a little sense.

You started out on this thread essentially denying that the cross saves us. Then, after a couple of days you suddenly pop up with 2 or 3 posts with a really nice explanation of justification through faith.

AND NOW... you've confused "baptismal regernationists" with paedobaptism. lol.

Do a little more book work and come back when you think you're tough enough. I'll school ya. Honestly.