Where is the five fold ministry?

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Will you ignore the NT church still had apostles, bishops, and elders?

Who's ingnoring the rest of the gifts from God? Im not but everyone else seems to be when the only gift recognized seems to be the pastor. And that not in the way set up by our Lord. As for elders and bishops read your word they were chosen by the people not "the so called, called" of God. They were the ones that took care of the administration of the body.

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

as onefaith has stated ther is bible for them being there .how can they hear without a preacher and how can he preach unless he be sent .

Yes there is but not in the authoritive capacity we think must be there. And how can they hear without a preacher? We are all commanded to preach the gospel it is not a calling. Just as we have all been sent, what you think the commision was just to the 12 diciples?

people have always erred on their own always ,, heck they always erred with help lol. but ministry has been set up to help guide folks and be examples to them.

That is the most arrogant statement, but I don't fault you for saying it, as it was told to you and me over the years and we have come to believe it. But it is not true in Christ, or else the holy ghost is not what we have preached it to be. As for erring the error is in the perspective of the viewer, the one judging the saint (what you see as sin)

Tell me where do you get scripture that says the ministry "has been set up" to guide and be examples "with authority" to dictate what they think are standards or doctrines of God? What most seem to overlook in Ephesians 4 is that we are all ministers, Eph 4:12 For the equiping of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


seems you have been on the bad end of a few pastors decisions ,,i feel you are honest and want to to a work for god not just a problem child ,, so i am sorry for what you have been thru. hopefully the hurt doesnt drive you from a place that people can benefit from what you bring to the table!

I guess you have forgotten or missed earlier post of mine, I am a ordained minister, And have pastored, assited pastors and started churches, raised 4 children to adulthood to see them stay in the way and marry and raise families in Christ.

Personaly I have not been on the bad end of a few pastors but I have been close enough to see authority misused hundreds of times over the years. Even from some of the best pastors.

Originally Posted by Aquila

The calling to the minister of "pastor" has little to do with preaching behind a pulpit, sermonizing, having an office, having a salary, or anything like these things.

The five fold ministry is alive and well. Give God praise and glory.

P.S.
While you may not do the work "professionally" according to traditional religion... what is YOUR ministry?

Aquila sorry that I did not post all of your post. but it could not have been worded any better if I said it myself. Thanks. I don't know think any one is getting what I am trying to say?

In my humble opinion we have been drilled into our heads that when left without leadership the people will sin. So we set ourselves up to dictate to saints of God what we think should be the laws of God. But in doing this we place the keeping of the law back into the church. And we have passage after passage that tell us we are not to go back to keeping of the law. Which is a list of thou shalt nots, how many times must Paul or one of the other writters of the NT tells that the fulfiment of the Law is Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Yet we have made our list of thou shalt nots, And have called them the commandment of Christ. So I leave you with two scriptures again,

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Evidently you don't see this as having been fulfilled. But either the holy ghost has been given and this is fulfilled or we are living alie. Jesus own words said the holy ghost would teach and bring to your rememberance whatsoever.... What the holy ghost only teaches those called of God? My bible tells me the gift of the holy ghost is to every one.