3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Jesus says born again.
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Nicodemus answers another natural birth?
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jesus then distinguishes between the first birth (water) and the second (spirit)
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Then He talks just about the spirit birth.
We bring baptism to this passage and insert born again of water, that's not what He said.
Still doesn't make a pile of sense, if he meant you had to first be born.
Nevertheless, there is much more in scripture that points to the importance of obeying baptism.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
I feel kind of stupid now that it has been explained so well.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. LPW
Seems silly for Jesus to say; 'In order to get to heaven you first have to be born... and then you have to be born again. But first.. gotta make sure you're born.. if you aren't born you don't stand a chance of getting into heaven.
DUH.
But that scripture aside, there are pleanty others for Water and Spirit.
Indeed, another thread.
He was responding to the question of Nicodemus.
This was the original Nick at Night.
Nick had asked how a person could be born again? could the person enter into the mother's womb and be born a second time?
Jesus explained that there are two births.
The first is the birth of our flesh person and the second is the birth of our spirit person. The first is of water and the second is of Spirit. The first puts us into the human family and the second puts us into the heavenly family. The first birth is from our earthly parent and the second birth is from our heavenly parent.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
Still doesn't make a pile of sense, if he meant you had to first be born.
Nevertheless, there is much more in scripture that points to the importance of obeying baptism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneasttx
I feel kind of stupid now that it has been explained so well.
I'm not telling anybody what to believe but this passage makes no reference to baptism and unless you force that understanding onto it, it makes perfect sense. Why would Jesus move on to talking about one born of the spirit and not of the water and spirit in the next verse if he meant for them to be baptized and receive the HG? The Water/Spirit explanation is not consistent with the passage.
Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
He was responding to the question of Nicodemus.
This was the original Nick at Night.
Nick had asked how a person could be born again? could the person enter into the mother's womb and be born a second time?
Jesus explained that there are two births.
The first is the birth of our flesh person and the second is the birth of our spirit person. The first is of water and the second is of Spirit. The first puts us into the human family and the second puts us into the heavenly family. The first birth is from our earthly parent and the second birth is from our heavenly parent.
No the first time I heard someone explain John 3:5 as not being about baptism it actually made sense to me. I feel like you have to bring a lot of baggage with you to get baptism out of that passage. So I kicked the W/S doctrine first.
When Jesus explains it he compares a natural birth to a spiritual birth...that which is born of the flesh is flesh that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Water = natural birth
Spirit = spiritual birth
(but that's a separate thread)
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Verse 3 says that one needs to be born again to even see the Kingdom.
Verse a question by Nicodemus as he was just looking at the natural.
How do we do it?
Verse 5 he says that if one doesn't get born of "water" & "Spirit" he can not enter the Kingdom.
Why would he state that unless one was born "naturally" & then born of the "Spirit" it would be redundant unless the being born of water relates to Water Baptism?
Makes sense when one looks at Water Spirit being water baptism & Spirit Baptism.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Verse 3 says that one needs to be born again to even see the Kingdom.
Verse a question by Nicodemus as he was just looking at the natural.
How do we do it?
Verse 5 he says that if one doesn't get born of "water" & "Spirit" he can not enter the Kingdom.
Why would he state that unless one was born "naturally" & then born of the "Spirit" it would be redundant unless the being born of water relates to Water Baptism?
Makes sense when one looks at Water Spirit being water baptism & Spirit Baptism.
See post #14
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Jesus says born again.
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Nicodemus answers another natural birth?
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jesus then distinguishes between the first birth (water) and the second (spirit)
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Then He talks just about the spirit birth.
We bring baptism to this passage and insert born again of water, that's not what He said.
I think you are being deliberately obtuse. I know John 3:5 is not talking about water baptism. Very plain to see.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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