Something interesting about gays.

[houston]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Everybody wants an excuse to alleviate them from responsibility of their actions. This holds true for all sin, not just the sin of homosexuality.

Like the man who was sexually abused as a child, turns around and sexually abuses his daughter. His excuse was that it happened to him. That does not make sense. Nor will it fly in a courtroom.

Truth is...we all choose to take the actions we take. Sometimes it is premeditated, sometimes spur of the moment, sometimes reactions to danger...but we choose.

Thank you for bringing reason back into the conversation. I agree.

[Luke]

I do not agree that people are born gay. I do believe that all mankind are born sinners from there we choose what sins we pursue. But even if people were born that way it would still be sinful and abominable to remain that way. As to weather or not they act upon it they should seek a complete deliverance from that sin just as anyone else would any other sin.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Luke

I do not agree that people are born gay. I do believe that all mankind are born sinners from there we choose what sins we pursue. But even if people were born that way it would still be sinful and abominable to remain that way. As to weather or not they act upon it they should seek a complete deliverance from that sin just as anyone else would any other sin.

I agree with half of what you stated.

[AreYouReady?]

All that being said, do we throw stones at the homosexuals because they make a conscious choice?

NO.

I would not gravitate to any church who would use stones to try to persuade me to believe what the written Word teaches.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

All that being said, do we throw stones at the homosexuals because they make a conscious choice?

NO.

I would not gravitate to any church who would use stones to try to persuade me to believe what the written Word teaches.

Also, would we stone (literally) somebody who committed adultery? Do we stone people who steal? The muslims cut off their hand.

If we believe that God delivers from sin, then all we need to do is pray that the Holy Ghost convicts any sinner from what they are doing against God's commandments. I've seen people literally run and slide on their knees to the altar after sermons.

God is still sovereign and on the throne.

[StillStanding]

I believe babies are born asexual. Boy babies aren't attracted to girl babies or other boy babies. They are attracted to their mother, most likely!

I do believe every human has a preposition to attraction one way or the other. It has not been scientifically proven that there is anything that influences this attraction. It is what it is. It is how God made us!

I don't believe one's natural attraction is a sin. It is acting out sexual activity outside of marriage where sin comes in. The adulterer or fornicator is no better than a practicing gay person. All is sin! They are all following the lust of the flesh instead of following godliness.

I know that some (maybe most!) don't agree with me, but that's OK! I know of too many man who were attracted to other men that have thought of committing suicide because they WANT to be heterosexual and be "normal". After crying and begging God to change them, they were unable to change. I had a friend ask me, " Do you really think I would CHOOSE to be like this, to suffer the ridicule of family and friends, to be the subject of gossip and cruel jokes, to be called horrible names?"

I use to think like most on this thread think on this issue. My heart was changed to more compassionate when a close friend revealed his issue to me. I KNOW this man loves God, and would love nothing else but to be "normal" so he would fit in.

In case you're wondering, NO, I'm not gay! I'm happily married with three children and six grandchildren!

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by StillStanding

I believe babies are born asexual. Boy babies aren't attracted to girl babies or other boy babies. They are attracted to their mother, most likely!

I do believe every human has a preposition to attraction one way or the other. It has not been scientifically proven that there is anything that influences this attraction. It is what it is. It is how God made us!

I don't believe one's natural attraction is a sin. It is acting out sexual activity outside of marriage where sin comes in. The adulterer or fornicator is no better than a practicing gay person. All is sin! They are all following the lust of the flesh instead of following godliness.

I know that some (maybe most!) don't agree with me, but that's OK! I know of too many man who were attracted to other men that have thought of committing suicide because they WANT to be heterosexual and be "normal". After crying and begging God to change them, they were unable to change. I had a friend ask me, " Do you really think I would CHOOSE to be like this, to suffer the ridicule of family and friends, to be the subject of gossip and cruel jokes, to be called horrible names?"

I use to think like most on this thread think on this issue. My heart was changed to more compassionate when a close friend revealed his issue to me. I KNOW this man loves God, and would love nothing else but to be "normal" so he would fit in.

In case you're wondering, NO, I'm not gay! I'm happily married with three children and six grandchildren!

Now... I'm going to ask a few questions and I want to state up front that I'm not trying to be smart alec and I'm not trying to make light of your position.

What you have stated here reminds me a lot of the "if they had a choice why would they choose this lifestyle with all of the rejection they get from society" argument. When I hear this thought put forward questions begin to roll through my mind...

If the statement in quotes above has any validity then wouldn't the same remain true for child molesters & serial adulterers? Why would they choose a life that is so looked down on society and so ridiculed if they had a choice? That seems far fetched but that is the clear end for this reasoning.

I see the same with what you have stated here. What if there were a man in your life who loves God, and would love nothing else but to be "normal" so he would fit in and yet he had a problem with child molestation? Should our compassion for child molesters increase?

What if you had a friend who just cannot stop cheating on his wife? He continually sleeps with other women but he loves God, and would love nothing else but to be "normal" so he would fit in? Should we see adulterers in a new and compassionate light?

There are clearly people who have these problems. And, beyond their deviant activities, I would imagine that some of them are good people and probably some of them attend church.

The scripture that comes to my mind is this... The heart is deceitful above all things...

I pray that you consider what I have presented here.

We are not to hate the sinner etc. But I don't think we are to come to a place where we accept a premise that says God made us this way. If we do that then when the premise runs it's course we will find ourselves having compassion for the child molester or the adulterer or the rapist because that is where this reasoning finally leads.

[MarieA27]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Now... I'm going to ask a few questions and I want to state up front that I'm not trying to be smart alec and I'm not trying to make light of your position.

What you have stated here reminds me a lot of the "if they had a choice why would they choose this lifestyle with all of the rejection they get from society" argument. When I hear this thought put forward questions begin to roll through my mind...

If the statement in quotes above has any validity then wouldn't the same remain true for child molesters & serial adulterers? Why would they choose a life that is so looked down on society and so ridiculed if they had a choice? That seems far fetched but that is the clear end for this reasoning.

I see the same with what you have stated here. What if there were a man in your life who loves God, and would love nothing else but to be "normal" so he would fit in and yet he had a problem with child molestation? Should our compassion for child molesters increase?

What if you had a friend who just cannot stop cheating on his wife? He continually sleeps with other women but he loves God, and would love nothing else but to be "normal" so he would fit in? Should we see adulterers in a new and compassionate light?

There are clearly people who have these problems. And, beyond their deviant activities, I would imagine that some of them are good people and probably some of them attend church.

The scripture that comes to my mind is this... The heart is deceitful above all things...

I pray that you consider what I have presented here.

We are not to hate the sinner etc. But I don't think we are to come to a place where we accept a premise that says God made us this way. If we do that then when the premise runs it's course we will find ourselves having compassion for the child molester or the adulterer or the rapist because that is where this reasoning finally leads.

We are not to hate the sinner etc. But I don't think we are to come to a place where we accept a premise that says God made us this way. If we do that then when the premise runs it's course we will find ourselves having compassion for the child molester or the adulterer or the rapist because that is where this reasoning finally leads.

I understand what you’re saying, and was going to post something similar. First of all I believe that sin, all sin comes from the Devil, and that he is continually placing temptations on us to do those things which are against the spirit, that which is against God. And sin is us committing or consenting within our hearts or with our deeds, to allow those things that we are tempted with to consume us.
When we are tempted to lie, to murder to commit adultery, to fornicate…yes I do believe that these are in the same vein as the spirits of child molestation, murdering, and even gays. No I don’t believe God made gays that way, nor do I believe that all of those who are gay, chose their lifestyles. Not everyone is tempted with exactly the same thing, and you don’t choose what you are tempted with. The devil don’t put the exact same temptation on every single last person, he’s to cunning for that, if he did, then everyone would probably know what sin is, and where it’s coming from, and would be better equipped to resist and fight it.

I view gays almost in the same way as I few someone who is wrathful. It’s like someone who was always angry, always quick to wrath even from their youth, to the point that even when that person grows up, as far as long as everyone knew them, they were like that, and everyone who knows them, will say that that’s just how that person is, and acting as if that person was born that way. The same way as if someone had a quick tongue, or always deceitful. People who know them and the person that has these sins, will just think that that is how they were born, because as long as they lived they were like this way.

My problem with those who are against gays, is that it seems that people just have a hatred for them, ( not their sin) as if their sin is worse then your own. And will make up all kinds of excuses why they can’t stop sinning, and then jump on the gays for their sins, and expect them to stop sinning.

You don’t have compassion for them, in the since that you accept their sin as if it’s alright, but you should know how to act towards them, to help them turn away from it. Through the help of our Lord, gays (and everyone else) can stop sinning, and fight and turn away from the temptations that the devil places on you.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

We are not to hate the sinner etc. But I don't think we are to come to a place where we accept a premise that says God made us this way. If we do that then when the premise runs it's course we will find ourselves having compassion for the child molester or the adulterer or the rapist because that is where this reasoning finally leads.

I understand what you’re saying, and was going to post something similar. First of all I believe that sin, all sin comes from the Devil, and that he is continually placing temptations on us to do those things which are against the spirit, that which is against God. And sin is us committing or consenting within our hearts or with our deeds, to allow those things that we are tempted with to consume us.
When we are tempted to lie, to murder to commit adultery, to fornicate…yes I do believe that these are in the same vein as the spirits of child molestation, murdering, and even gays. No I don’t believe God made gays that way, nor do I believe that all of those who are gay, chose their lifestyles. Not everyone is tempted with exactly the same thing, and you don’t choose what you are tempted with. The devil don’t put the exact same temptation on every single last person, he’s to cunning for that, if he did, then everyone would probably know what sin is, and where it’s coming from, and would be better equipped to resist and fight it.

I view gays almost in the same way as I few someone who is wrathful. It’s like someone who was always angry, always quick to wrath even from their youth, to the point that even when that person grows up, as far as long as everyone knew them, they were like that, and everyone who knows them, will say that that’s just how that person is, and acting as if that person was born that way. The same way as if someone had a quick tongue, or always deceitful. People who know them and the person that has these sins, will just think that that is how they were born, because as long as they lived they were like this way.

My problem with those who are against gays, is that it seems that people just have a hatred for them, ( not their sin) as if their sin is worse then your own. And will make up all kinds of excuses why they can’t stop sinning, and then jump on the gays for their sins, and expect them to stop sinning.

You don’t have compassion for them, in the since that you accept their sin as if it’s alright, but you should know how to act towards them, to help them turn away from it. Through the help of our Lord, gays (and everyone else) can stop sinning, and fight and turn away from the temptations that the devil places on you.

Agreed.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Now... I'm going to ask a few questions and I want to state up front that I'm not trying to be smart alec and I'm not trying to make light of your position.

What you have stated here reminds me a lot of the "if they had a choice why would they choose this lifestyle with all of the rejection they get from society" argument. When I hear this thought put forward questions begin to roll through my mind...

If the statement in quotes above has any validity then wouldn't the same remain true for child molesters & serial adulterers? Why would they choose a life that is so looked down on society and so ridiculed if they had a choice? That seems far fetched but that is the clear end for this reasoning.

I see the same with what you have stated here. What if there were a man in your life who loves God, and would love nothing else but to be "normal" so he would fit in and yet he had a problem with child molestation? Should our compassion for child molesters increase?

What if you had a friend who just cannot stop cheating on his wife? He continually sleeps with other women but he loves God, and would love nothing else but to be "normal" so he would fit in? Should we see adulterers in a new and compassionate light?

There are clearly people who have these problems. And, beyond their deviant activities, I would imagine that some of them are good people and probably some of them attend church.

The scripture that comes to my mind is this... The heart is deceitful above all things...

I pray that you consider what I have presented here.

We are not to hate the sinner etc. But I don't think we are to come to a place where we accept a premise that says God made us this way. If we do that then when the premise runs it's course we will find ourselves having compassion for the child molester or the adulterer or the rapist because that is where this reasoning finally leads.

Good honest questions!

As stated, I believe all humans are born asexual. At some time in their adolescence, each makes a subconscious lean one way or another. It can't be influenced, otherwise how could a gay couple raise a child turns out straight?

You compare gays to child molesters and serial adulterers. BTW, I believe one makes a conscious choice to molest a child! It's a deviant activity that destroys lives. This choice is made outside of sexual orientation. I believe molestation begins with pornography, and then leads to child pornography before any assertive action is taken. Therefore, I believe the catalyst for child molestation is pornography.

I also believe the catalyst for the serial adulterer is porn. One gets "turned on" with the idea of different sexual partners, and then makes a choice to act on their fantasies. Of course, this can destroy families.

I believe it is porn that plants the seed of sin and unrighteousness. When does it become sin? I struggle with this. The bible does say if a man looks at another woman and imagines things in his mind, he has already committed adultery in his heart. We have ALL sinned with evil thoughts that go through our minds. We have to bring our thoughts into godly captivity.

So, are ANY thoughts or propensity to deviant sexual activity outside of marriage sin? Absolutely! When our thoughts become actions, we begin LIVING in sin. I don't see where sins are weighted in scripture. Sin is sin!

I believe there are many men out there that have a homosexual leaning, but are living a normal married life raising children. They have chosen to put their thoughts into spiritual captivity. As you know, some get weak and finally give in to their sexual orientation. Are these men any worse than the man who gets weak and has affairs on his wife? I believe they are one and the same!