We've been told that lines and fences make a difference.
You cannot logically espouse both positions at the same time.
If standards are powerful, and keep us from sin, then it stands to reason that this sort of stuff would never happen - especially among the very men who've created the lines and fences.
We've all heard...
When a church loses standards it loses the power and favor of God.
People who don't follow standards are loose, and sinful.
Obedience to a pastor's standards builds a hedge from sin.
You can't be saved without holiness (read "standards").
This is a man who firmly believed Lee Stoneking's tripe about the power of a woman's long, uncut hair. His church embraced the doctrine.
The doctrine states that a man and a church are protected so long as the women of the church keep the scissors out of their hair.
Protected from what? At various times LS and Ruth Reider Harvey have posited that uncut hair guarantees protection from adultery, accidents and other calamities.
In the end we see the foolishness of standards preaching. It creates a false sense of security based upon what we do. Instead, we should distrust our own heart and lean on Jesus to protect and keep us from evil.
This all leads back to a distorted soteriological baseline. Measurements save instead of Jesus. We lean to our own understanding rather than trust Him to direct our paths.
In the end, we fail. Miserably. Repetitively.
I truly wish those of you who so vehemently state "it happens among all groups" now would remember this, going forward, as you preach and teach.
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Originally Posted by Praxeas
First of all please don't say "WE" as if you speak for all of us.
Second you are making a classical mistake called a sweeping generalization. It shows your process is not based on thoughtful objective reasoning but emotive subjective reaction
Lastly nothing in the above proves such failures are systemic of Conservatism or Legalism. The facts are they happen across the board in all areas of Christianity .
As far as I can tell I am not in violation of any forum rules, therefore I will continue using language I feel is appropriate to the topic at hand.
You are not an authority and have most certainly not seen the things I've seen or been involved in my experiences. I pardon your condescension and ignorance because I perceive that you are attempting to play "big man on campus."
I am quite sure that I am not alone in my belief that legalists enjoy the kill.
Now, as to your repeated disclaimer that all have sinned, and that all are guilty? Well, duh, that's exactly what I have been posting for the past few pages. Unfortunately, your decade-long struggle with reading comprehension coupled with your penchant for obnoxious arrogance blinds you to that fact.
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I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
As far as I can tell I am not in violation of any forum rules, therefore I will continue using language I feel is appropriate to the topic at hand.
I never said one word about any violations lol
Quote:
You are not an authority and have most certainly not seen the things I've seen or been involved in my experiences. I pardon your condescension and ignorance because I perceive that you are attempting to play "big man on campus."
Rofl. Looks who's trying to be big man on campus.
I am quite sure that I am not alone in my belief that legalists enjoy the kill.
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Now, as to your repeated disclaimer that all have sinned, and that all are guilty?
I don't recall repeatedly saying that at all.
Quote:
Well, duh, that's exactly what I have been posting for the past few pages. Unfortunately, your decade-long struggle with reading comprehension coupled with your penchant for obnoxious arrogance blinds you to that fact.
Wow, does little man feel bigger now that he lobbed some insults?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
When a person tells me they are a Democrat I know they belong to a party which supports abortions, entitlement, and wealth distribution. Even if that person doesn't believe in abortion, the label the represent says something different. People who identify with a works based religion need to realize the decades of threats, intimidations, and manipulation can't be wiped away because "not everyone is like that."
It will take years or a radical change to alter the preception of works based organizations.
__________________
A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
People need to get over it and move on. Really. I know people have been hurt. But we live in a society where people hold on to their pain. Everyone's a victim.
People need to get over it and move on. Really. I know people have been hurt. But we live in a society where people hold on to their pain. Everyone's a victim.
A victim mentality is something the Democrat party and civil rights leaders have pretty much institutionalized in the United States over the last 40 years. It is on that base that President Obama and the Democrats are appealing to class envy in this current election cycle (and the last one as well). Personal responsibility, something this country was founded upon, is a fading concept in America.
Sadly this victim mentality bleeds over to every aspect of life so we have a society where when people are wronged they never suck it up and keep on going. They use those wrongs as excuses not to achieve. By achieve I mean in work, their personal life, walk with God ,etc, etc.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
A victim mentality is something the Democrat party and civil rights leaders have pretty much institutionalized in the United States over the last 40 years. It is on that base that President Obama and the Democrats are appealing to class envy in this current election cycle (and the last one as well). Personal responsibility, something this country was founded upon, is a fading concept in America.
Sadly this victim mentality bleeds over to every aspect of life so we have a society where when people are wronged they never suck it up and keep on going. They use those wrongs as excuses not to achieve. By achieve I mean in work, their personal life, walk with God ,etc, etc.
People who identify with a works based religion need to realize the decades of threats, intimidations, and manipulation can't be wiped away because "not everyone is like that."
It will take years or a radical change to alter the preception of works based organizations.
Yes, and it is almost vulgar to tell someone who has been permanently scarred to "just get over it" and "move on."
Some people are too crippled to move on.
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I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
__________________
I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
__________________
I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
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