Tulsa Report Day 2

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by IAintMovin

I HATE the liberal/conserative label.........I remember at one time in my life God even blessed us to help put on a meeting that was considered on the conserative side - but even there I would find men who would ask - ........ What are you doing here?........as in I was way to liberal to be there........

Then a few weeks later I visited a different conference and was ask ........ What are you doing here?........as in Dude you are WAYYYY to conserative to be here......

This really bothered me and so I took it to the Lord in prayer...........while I was traveling home from the second conference (and some may not believe this part) I felt the power of God come into the car and so I ask Him.........God what am I to do.........These guys think I am a liberal.....these others think I am too conserative........then I ask, God Where Am I?????????

I felt the power of God and then I felt a voice speak to me.......and HE said........Just stay in the shadow of the cross.......

Being the IAM that I am I argued.......but what about those on the left who feel I am one way and those on the right who feel I am another........what about them.........Then the answer came......If I am in the shadow of the Cross then those on the left are on the left of the cross and those on the right are on the right and neither one is in the shadow of the Cross........

So from that day on.......I will never try to impress you with how Holy or Liberal I am........I just want to do His will, be saved, and see my family saved and there be a church built in Longview Texas for the Glory of the Kingdom of God.........

And my friend other than that.......... NOTHING else matters............

and that is why I AM happy YOU Arent Moving.....

this is my point. these guys have been in an organization they have been in for many decades. the issues have always been the issues, why now? why this straw? for some, it is 50 years worth of "issues"


I dont get that. (I like the shade too)

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Barb

Almost word for word from my pastor's sermon yesterday, girl...

Serious? Wow!

[IAintMovin]

Originally Posted by CC1

YouAintaMovin,

BTW - I am going to be in your fair city next month for a wedding. It is going to be one of those crazy fast trips I hate. One day of driving, one day of wedding, and then one day of driving back home. Arghhhhhh.

If ya got time.........would love to shake your hand...........



Especially the one you take shots at me with........

No really if you have the time, I would love to meet ya, but if it dont work, I understand...........

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

They paid me I cannot vouch for anyone else?

How Much ?

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I'm happy to be living in an area where this whole Tulsa thing is hardly a blip on the radar.

That's 'cuz there's not much church life up there

[TRIPLE E]

Originally Posted by StMark

That's 'cuz there's not much church life up there

I'd take that back if I were you.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by TRIPLE E

I'd take that back if I were you.

Why? it's true isn't it? there's not much church life in the northwest period.

[Mrs. LPW]

Originally Posted by StMark

Why? it's true isn't it? there's not much church life in the northwest period.

She's in the Northeast now... try to keep up

You don't want to offend us Northeasternersersers do you?

[TRIPLE E]

Originally Posted by StMark

Why? it's true isn't it? there's not much church life in the northwest period.

They are in the North East now!

[RevBuddy]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

I know that you did not ask me but, if I may...

It is not about the proverbial straws at all. It is not about what someone else might be doing within the fellowship. It is about unrest and discontentment in the soul...a dissatisfaction, a utopian longing of idealistic aspirations crippled by deception. When the light fades, ghosts appear and the peace of God takes His flight, the mind is left to wander without an anchor while continually seeking yet another milestone of perfection in the flesh.

Such men trouble you. Paul said that he would that they were CUT OFF. But Jesus said, "Peace give I unto you, not as the world gives, give I, but my peace. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither be afraid."

I agree with your statement in principle.

I believe I understand your point - it's about discontented brethren with an unattainable churchview of an absolute Church living ABSOLUTELY. If the early church is any example, and I believe it definitely is, there is nothing absolute about the church at all as it relates to personal and corporate behavior, at least in terms of individual and collective holiness. The writings of the Apostle Paul are fully of corrections and admonishments to these congregations. And, they in turn, were continually attempting to live a godly life in this present world.

The trouble with this unattainable churchview is that it mimics the Old Testament law, and in doing so, places an unrealistic performance level on those who attempt to conform to it. Israelites could not, in fact, live up to the Law. It was God's Law; it was His will, and it was perfect. But, real men and women were incapable (even given a sincere desire to obey) of meeting the Law's high standards.

The UC among us is often characterized by the inability to recognize the falibility of saints. I realize this is a generalization of the movement, and I'm willing to give and take as necessary, but GENERALLY, the final destination (heaven or hell) of entire congregations is based SOLELY on the individual's conformity and ABSOLUTE obedience to a given set of standards (laws, little "L"). In this case, it is NOT God's law; it is NOT His will and it is NOT perfect. Yes, the Holy Ghost is present to guide and empower the NT convert(at least, that is my assumption for this argument), but if the Holy Ghost is not "teaching" these man-made standards, then the individual will not be "led" to conform or obey. It will, then, be left to the enforcer of the standard to step in. This enforcer usually takes a step-by-step approach in "encouraging" compliance...

1. friendly persuation...encouraging the individual to reach for "more" of God..a great level of sacrifice...and greater dedication and intimacy with God
2. friendly intimidation...educating the individual on the negative aspects of noncompliance, i.e., ineligible for positions, leadership, use, etc. etc....
3. friendly pressure (always with a smile)...admonishing the indivual on the need for maintaining a standard of holiness...achieving a place with God that few others can't...
4. unfriendly pressure and intimidation...warning the individual of ungodliness and the dangers of loving the world and the things in the world...clearly intimating that noncompliance will result in separation of God and His love...
5. unfriendly separation, shunning and expulsion...judging the individual to be found wanting and unworthy of further effort...a lost cause.

There are no doubt other steps in between. However, if unbiblical standards are taught as "salvation issues," where is the Holy Ghost's role in perfecting saints? The Holy Ghost is circumvented by the "under-shepherd." Now the Law is rewritten by the "man of God." If the Word doesn't completely address the issue, the "under-shepherd" clarifies the missing Word with His word...and makes it critical by assigning it an ABSOLUTE value - conform and make heaven...do not conform and be assured of hell's fire.

This phenomena is much more serious than we can imagine - to institutionalize our convictions and write them in between the lines of His Word - is to risk hell's fire - not on the part of the saint, but on the part of the "new lawgiver!" It is a strange fire brought from "without the camp."

Enough of my brilliance...