Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

[CC1]

I have been assured that TPC plans on having a new pastor installed by 2015. They are simply trying to figure out "God's time" and as soon as they nail that down they will act.






















J/K

[Godzchild]

I have been assured that TPC plans on having a new pastor installed by 2015. They are simply trying to figure out "God's time" and as soon as they nail that down they will act.






















J/K

you are bad :heeheehee

[webe123]

Well to all who seem to be poking fun at what I said about waiting on Gods time, I'll stand by what I said!

Some of you would probably have a pastor in 24 hours!

I wonder what kind of pastor you would have?

Not a very good one in all probability I can tell you that.

[AreYouReady?]

Some churches in the nation already have their next pastor picked out before they give the boot to their current pastor. :rolleyes2

[webe123]

Some churches in the nation already have their next pastor picked out before they give the boot to their current pastor. :rolleyes2

We are talking about a church who had no idea their pastor was INVOLVED IN SIN!

Now how exactly were they supposed to have a new pastor before they found out what the old pastor was doing?

[AreYouReady?]

Sorry Webe. I was just being facetious because some churches are so fickle that they boot their pastor, already having another person in mind and ready to come.

It was a tic statement and in no way did I have your church situation in mind when I posted this.

[houston]

Well to all who seem to be poking fun at what I said about waiting on Gods time, I'll stand by what I said!

Some of you would probably have a pastor in 24 hours!

I wonder what kind of pastor you would have?

Not a very good one in all probability I can tell you that.

How many have been interviewed for the job?

[CC1]

Well to all who seem to be poking fun at what I said about waiting on Gods time, I'll stand by what I said!

Some of you would probably have a pastor in 24 hours!

I wonder what kind of pastor you would have?

Not a very good one in all probability I can tell you that.

Pretty lame response to a legitimate concern about people using "God's time" as an excuse to do nothing or prolong a process.

You are only revealing your own intellect or lack thereof when you suggest "Some of you probably would have a pastor in 24 hours". That is an absurd statement and I hope upon reflection you will realize that.

To suggest that someone expressing concern that six months down the road TPC is still pastor less means that person would pick a new pastor in 24 hours is childish. Reminds me of the mentally challenged kid on my school bus who when told by another boy that his father had a 30-06 rifle the mentally challenged boy replied that his father had a "40-06!!". Of course no such thing existed.

[CC1]

How many have been interviewed for the job?

Stop rushing things! I think in "God's time" they will start doing that. I envision a schedule something like this;

2014 - begin process of trying out pastors
2015 - evaluate preachers heard during 2014
2016 - narrow the field of candidates to 3 (board decision)
2016 - have church vote on final 3 candidates (assuming they are still alive and available)

[webe123]

Pretty lame response to a legitimate concern about people using "God's time" as an excuse to do nothing or prolong a process.

Show EXACTLY where I said that it should be prolonged for nothing? I never said that.

Matter of fact, I said that it all depended on what the situation was! Please stop putting words in my mouth.

You are only revealing your own intellect or lack thereof when you suggest "Some of you probably would have a pastor in 24 hours". That is an absurd statement and I hope upon reflection you will realize that.

Well that is MY RIGHT to have an opinion isn't it? Some people have been berating ME for simply saying people should wait on Gods timing! Again, I will stand by what I have said. And the remark was tounge in cheek. I hope upon reflection you will realize that part.


To suggest that someone expressing concern that six months down the road TPC is still pastor less means that person would pick a new pastor in 24 hours is childish.

Some people cannot take punishment, but they sure dish it out pretty quickly! Do YOU think it was right for them to jump all over ME, because I suggested a church WAITED until they were re3ady to pick a pastor no matter how long it TOOK?

Reminds me of the mentally challenged kid on my school bus who when told by another boy that his father had a 30-06 rifle the mentally challenged boy replied that his father had a "40-06!!". Of course no such thing existed.

Wow, and all of this flaming coming for an admin? Calling me mentally challenged because I don't agree with you? I think you would be banning anyone that talked like that on this forum. Perhaps you might want to follow your own rules?

I respect you and what you stand for, but I don't lay down and allow anyone to flame me on a public forum!

[StillStanding]

How many have been interviewed for the job?
http://gifs.gifbin.com/1238512492_the-happening-wahlberg.gif

[tv1a]

No matter the time frame the new guy won't be around long term. The board will see to that.

[Margies3]

Well to all who seem to be poking fun at what I said about waiting on Gods time, I'll stand by what I said!

Some of you would probably have a pastor in 24 hours!

I wonder what kind of pastor you would have?

Not a very good one in all probability I can tell you that.

In all seriousness, our church JUST got a new pastor. We had been without a pastor for 2 years and 1 month. There were some real issues with the former pastor (his wife, specifically). We never thought it would take 2 years to find a new one. But I really believe now that we needed that time for God to do some healing in us before the new man came. We are certainly not the same congregation that we were two years ago. Same people - but we've all changed. Alot. It's been a good thing.

There is nothing wrong with waiting to see what God's timing is.

[CC1]

In all seriousness, our church JUST got a new pastor. We had been without a pastor for 2 years and 1 month. There were some real issues with the former pastor (his wife, specifically). We never thought it would take 2 years to find a new one. But I really believe now that we needed that time for God to do some healing in us before the new man came. We are certainly not the same congregation that we were two years ago. Same people - but we've all changed. Alot. It's been a good thing.

There is nothing wrong with waiting to see what God's timing is.

If 2 years without a pastor made you better people just think what 5 or 10 years could have done!:happydance

[houston]

In all seriousness, our church JUST got a new pastor. We had been without a pastor for 2 years and 1 month. There were some real issues with the former pastor (his wife, specifically). We never thought it would take 2 years to find a new one. But I really believe now that we needed that time for God to do some healing in us before the new man came. We are certainly not the same congregation that we were two years ago. Same people - but we've all changed. Alot. It's been a good thing.

There is nothing wrong with waiting to see what God's timing is.

Your denomination doesn't have a thousand more ministers than churches.

[Margies3]

If 2 years without a pastor made you better people just think what 5 or 10 years could have done!:happydance

LOL! Just imagine! We could have almost become saints in that amount of time. hehehe

Your denomination doesn't have a thousand more ministers than churches.

nope, you're right, we do not. Becoming a minister in our denomination is not an easy thing. It is a very serious thing :)

[webe123]

In all seriousness, our church JUST got a new pastor. We had been without a pastor for 2 years and 1 month. There were some real issues with the former pastor (his wife, specifically). We never thought it would take 2 years to find a new one. But I really believe now that we needed that time for God to do some healing in us before the new man came. We are certainly not the same congregation that we were two years ago. Same people - but we've all changed. Alot. It's been a good thing.

There is nothing wrong with waiting to see what God's timing is.

Glad you got a new pastor and it worked out for you. We are still looking at my church, but it is not like we are desperate to find one right at this moment, I suspect we will simply keep looking until we find one like you did.

How long it takes is...basically...."how long it takes"!(However long that is, is anyone's guess)

[houston]

nope, you're right, we do not. Becoming a minister in our denomination is not an easy thing. It is a very serious thing :)
C&MA, right?

[Margies3]

C&MA, right?

Right :) You're good :highfive:

[houston]

Right :) You're good :highfive:

I was checking out their requirements for different positions. They take education very seriously. :nod

[deacon blues]

Talked to a former TPC staff member yesterday who said they have narrowed down the selection process to three names. Don't know who the three are, but one is coming in tomorrow to preach. A former missionary and a current pastor from Corpus Christi. So CC1 you can breathe a sigh of relief.

[CC1]

Talked to a former TPC staff member yesterday who said they have narrowed down the selection process to three names. Don't know who the three are, but one is coming in tomorrow to preach. A former missionary and a current pastor from Corpus Christi. So CC1 you can breathe a sigh of relief.

Thought I would see who today's candidate is but when you click on their live webcast for today it has a banner across the bottom saying "there will be no broadcast today March 3, 2013". I wonder what is so top secret about a potential pastor's sermon today? Perhaps he plans on addressing specifics of their situation rather than just preaching a stand alone sermon. In that case I can understand the discretion.

According to the UPCI website the current Corpus Christi pastors are;

Russell D. Campbell
Rod Carpenter
John Everett

[triumphant1]

Thought I would see who today's candidate is but when you click on their live webcast for today it has a banner across the bottom saying "there will be no broadcast today March 3, 2013". I wonder what is so top secret about a potential pastor's sermon today? Perhaps he plans on addressing specifics of their situation rather than just preaching a stand alone sermon. In that case I can understand the discretion.

According to the UPCI website the current Corpus Christi pastors are;

Russell D. Campbell
Rod Carpenter
John Everett

Made me curious enough to look at last weeks service to try to see if the was announced….

City is Bay City not Corpus

Potential Pastor preaching today and tomorrow night: Kevin Blake, former missionary and current Pastor of Apostolic Pentecostal Church of Bay City Texas. Only been there 2 1/2 years.

I thought I'd pass this on before any rumors started circulating about any of those Corpus Christi pastors...

[CC1]

Made me curious enough to look at last weeks service to try to see if the was announced….

City is Bay City not Corpus

Potential Pastor preaching today and tomorrow night: Kevin Blake, former missionary and current Pastor of Apostolic Pentecostal Church of Bay City Texas. Only been there 2 1/2 years.

I thought I'd pass this on before any rumors started circulating about any of those Corpus Christi pastors...

Thanks Triumphant!

There was a time when I knew of all of the up and coming pastors in the UPC but now I have no clue who many of these guys are including Pastor Kevin Blake. I have never heard of him.

[CC1]

Here is a link to Pastor Blake's current church's website and in particular the page about him. He has an extensive history of both pastoring and in missions work.

If TPC is looking for a homebody who doesn't get around much this may not be the guy! Looks like he has been very mobile and active during his ministry and is very missions / world minded.

He is right around my age so I am surprised I do not recognize the name.

http://apcbaycity.com/pastor/

[webe123]

Well the IMPORTANT thing is that they are getting close to choosing a new pastor. I wish them the best with whoever gets the position.

Then, it will take some time to get to know that person also. He will probably have things out of the congregation he expects and they will have some of him. It is pretty much a two way street.

I do not think it is an easy thing going into any church and trying to take over a pastor ship. I know that I would not want to try out for that job! I am happy doing what I am doing, just being a Holy Ghost filled christian! And even that has it's problems, but nothing like a pastor has! When a pastor has a "bad day" you can pretty much say it was a "bad day"! LOL!

[Evenuntodeath]

I cant believe people are still chattering about this. Can we let this die already? Sheesh.

[webe123]

I cant believe people are still chattering about this. Can we let this die already? Sheesh.

What EXACTLY is your PROBLEM?

Why don't YOU leave this topic if you don't like it!???

Always some person that thinks they can tell other people what to do.

I can't believe that came out of your mouth.

[Evenuntodeath]

What EXACTLY is your PROBLEM?

Why don't YOU leave this topic if you don't like it!???

Always some person that thinks they can tell other people what to do.

I can't believe that came out of your mouth.

http://www.madedition.com/wp-content/uploads/Oh-I-offended-you-with-my-opinion.-You-should-hear-the-ones-I-keep-to-myself.jpg

[tex]

he can preach but he was going to try to bring in too many new rules. i am pretty sure he didn't make the cut after his q & a session.

[tex]

terry black was the 11th candidate to tryout back in 1986.

[CC1]

I cant believe people are still chattering about this. Can we let this die already? Sheesh.

Last time I checked no one forced you to read a thread you are not interested in. There are dozens if not hundreds of other threads you can spend your time in if you do not want to read about or discuss this subject.

[CC1]

terry black was the 11th candidate to tryout back in 1986.

Wow! If you are not kidding and that is the truth then this IS a church that is willing to wait a long time for "God's time"!!!

[CC1]

he can preach but he was going to try to bring in too many new rules. i am pretty sure he didn't make the cut after his q & a session.

Mr. Texan,

Can you give some examples of what he said in the Q&A session that makes you think he was "going to try and bring in too many new rules"? Are you referring to "standards" or other rules?

[Michael Phelps]

Here is a link to Pastor Blake's current church's website and in particular the page about him. He has an extensive history of both pastoring and in missions work.

If TPC is looking for a homebody who doesn't get around much this may not be the guy! Looks like he has been very mobile and active during his ministry and is very missions / world minded.

He is right around my age so I am surprised I do not recognize the name.

http://apcbaycity.com/pastor/

I went to Bible College with Kevin and his wife, Jeanine.....good people.

[Michael Phelps]

I cant believe people are still chattering about this. Can we let this die already? Sheesh.

I can't believe people are still coming on to the thread to keep it going, just to criticize other people for keeping it going....

Can we let this die already? SHeesh......

[Timmy]

Mr. Texan,

Can you give some examples of what he said in the Q&A session that makes you think he was "going to try and bring in too many new rules"? Are you referring to "standards" or other rules?

"How many new rules will you make?"

"83."

"Next!"

[rgcraig]

"How many new rules will you make?"

"83."

"Next!"

Lol!

Well, some "rules" need to be made to keep things from going south like they did before.

[deacon blues]

How about "I will preach the Gospel, pray, teach and serve the constituents of this church. Other than that, I will trust the Holy Spirit to lead and guide people. Jesus knows how to take care of His church."

Whoever would say that would the new pastor in a heartbeat.

[RandyWayne]

Looks like a prominent Memphis, TN area UPC pastor has unexpectedly suddenly resigned after 20 years.

I was told that on Sunday visitors were asked to leave, told that they were not having service and at that point the pastor came out and announced his resignation.

While this church is not a "mega church" it is a fairly large one (around 800 members according to their website) and has been stable for years so I am sure they will have no problem finding a new pastor.

Will be interesting to see where the resigning pastor goes.

bump

[triumphant1]

terry black was the 11th candidate to tryout back in 1986.

Maybe the reason why they are just a little secretive when it comes to the process by not airing the service and by removing the service that the name was mentioned and announced…the selection process will weed out several candidates that already have a church.

Point made, if the candidates come try out and are turned down…their current church might just be a little upset….

Hopefully Pastor Blake informed his congregation beforehand that he is seeking the option of moving to Memphis……otherwise there might be some upset folks…who might just come on forums like this….Lordy Lordy…

[deacon blues]

Maybe the reason why they are just a little secretive when it comes to the process by not airing the service and by removing the service that the name was mentioned and announced…the selection process will weed out several candidates that already have a church.

Point made, if the candidates come try out and are turned down…their current church might just be a little upset….

Hopefully Pastor Blake informed his congregation beforehand that he is seeking the option of moving to Memphis……otherwise there might be some upset folks…who might just come on forums like this….Lordy Lordy…

I don't know how you could keep it a secret these days.

[Evenuntodeath]

I can't believe people are still coming on to the thread to keep it going, just to criticize other people for keeping it going....

Can we let this die already? SHeesh......

Har Har Har.....so funny.:ohplease

[Evenuntodeath]

Last time I checked no one forced you to read a thread you are not interested in. There are dozens if not hundreds of other threads you can spend your time in if you do not want to read about or discuss this subject.

You really think i read all 255 pages?:heeheehee ...But thanks for the tip, Mr. Obvious.

[CC1]

How about "I will preach the Gospel, pray, teach and serve the constituents of this church. Other than that, I will trust the Holy Spirit to lead and guide people. Jesus knows how to take care of His church."

Whoever would say that would the new pastor in a heartbeat.

In this case I would add to that list that we will have checks and balances. Accountability systems to be put in place to insure money is not misused in any way.

[1faith]

BTW.....FWIW......I do know for a fact that there is a pastor in the Corpus Christi area who is an applicant and may be one of the finalists.....there is no telling at this point who may be the new Pastor, we just need to pray that the Lord will lead and direct all concerned.

[Cindy]

http://www.madedition.com/wp-content/uploads/Oh-I-offended-you-with-my-opinion.-You-should-hear-the-ones-I-keep-to-myself.jpg

:ursofunny

How did I miss this before? :heeheehee

[CC1]

I don't know how you could keep it a secret these days.

Absolutely. Before the internet and free long distance phone a pastor could try out for another church and as long as it was geographically quite a distance from his current church there was a good chance none of his church members would ever know.

Now with FB, forums, and free long distance it is pretty much impossible to keep things like that secret.

[AreYouReady?]

You really think i read all 255 pages?:heeheehee ...But thanks for the tip, Mr. Obvious.

That ain't no tip EUD. Try pulling up an old thread and you will be asked why are you dredging up an old thread? Especially if it is controversial. :heeheehee:happydance

[deacon blues]

Any tryouts this past weekend?

[The Mrs]

WOW! :uhoh 238,648 thread views!!!

[deacon blues]

WOW! :uhoh 238,648 thread views!!!

It's amazing isn't it?

[seekerman]

People are hungry for the truth!!

[CC1]

Can any TPC members give us an update on how the preacher's have done who have tried out or has everybody been intimidated from talking about it?

It would be interesting to hear the preaching style and point of view of these candidates. Especially compared and contrasted with that of the previous pastor.

[StillStanding]

Can any TPC members give us an update on how the preacher's have done who have tried out or has everybody been intimidated from talking about it?

It would be interesting to hear the preaching style and point of view of these candidates. Especially compared and contrasted with that of the previous pastor.

Didn't you know that TPC is in a conclave and all members have taken a vow of secrecy? They'll make an announcement shortly after the white smoke appears!

[RandyWayne]

Didn't you know that TPC is in a conclave and all members have taken a vow of secrecy? They'll make an announcement shortly after the white smoke appears!

It would be hilarious if one of the pastors in the running played the part of "the spoiler" thus allowing the winner to get in with only 40% of the vote. Think of the preacher equivalent of Ross Perot who "once told Larry King that he could handle everything".

[CC1]

It would be hilarious if one of the pastors in the running played the part of "the spoiler" thus allowing the winner to get in with only 40% of the vote. Think of the preacher equivalent of Ross Perot who "once told Larry King that he could handle everything".

Most of the pastoral "elections" I have heard about it was an up and down vote on each candidate. Not pitting preachers against each other. I have heard of it being done the other way though.

I guess every method of election has its good and bad points. In the one church I have attended that was not pastored by a guy with a UPC background he had 2 groups for accountability. For local church finances and major decisions it was a group of elders much like a board. For spiritual accountability he had a group of other pastors / ministers he was accountable to and if he ever fell into sin it was that groups job to work with the local elders to find a replacement pastor. I don't think the church voted on candidates.

[Cindy]

CC1, why don't you just call the church and ask?

[Godzchild]

Didn't you know that TPC is in a conclave and all members have taken a vow of secrecy? They'll make an announcement shortly after the white smoke appears!

:heeheehee

[Godzchild]

CC1, why don't you just call the church and ask?

well helloooooo...:heeheehee

[Barb]

Has anyone read Steve Strang's editorial in the March issue of Charisma? Interesting piece...

[CC1]

Has anyone read Steve Strang's editorial in the March issue of Charisma? Interesting piece...

No, so edjumacate us! What does it say?

[Barb]

No, so edjumacate us! What does it say?

It doesn't SAY anything. :heeheehee

However, it READS thus: the failure of his own pastor, even calls him by name.

SS then writes about a few principles churches should keep in mind in hopes of preventing these things from happening...my words...not his.

[Godzchild]

just wondering :hmmm if any of the 240,782 views....at least one of them was TB? :search ..... :nah who cares anyway....:bubble

[deacon blues]

I talked to a current member of the church last week. He said they've had only the one candidate, KB, to preach a few Sundays ago, they have not had any others. One of the original three Board members is no longer a Board member, stepping down. They do now have a 7-9 member Board, he wasn't sure, but he was certain that it was larger than the original three. Also there is a pastoral search committee that contains some Board members and some others. It looks like they've restructured their leadership for the better with more accountability and more shared responsibility by trusted members of the church. Best wishes to this church and it's future.

[Steve Epley]

Still no pastor?

[navygoat1998]

Still no pastor?

Elder they are waiting for you. Somebody to whip them back into shape. :happydance

[seekerman]

Still no pastor?

Yes, it's a shame there's no one like you there to tell them about the evil christmas tree and the redemptive power of a woman's hair length.

It's important to keep the main things the main things you know.

[RandyWayne]

Yes, it's a shame there's no one like you there to tell them about the evil christmas tree and the redemptive power of a woman's hair length.

It's important to keep the main things the main things you know.

For the record, I do not believe SE believe in magic hair. Uncut, yes, but not that it has talisman like powers.

[seekerman]

For the record, I do not believe SE believe in magic hair. Uncut, yes, but not that it has talisman like powers.

If hair length determines redemption there there's power in the hair.

Modify it a little and it could remind me of an old song I heard so much in Church while growing up...

Would you be free from the burden of sin?
There’s pow’r in the hair, pow’r in the hair;
Would you o’er evil a victory win?
There’s wonderful pow’r in the hair.

[CC1]

I talked to a current member of the church last week. He said they've had only the one candidate, KB, to preach a few Sundays ago, they have not had any others. One of the original three Board members is no longer a Board member, stepping down. They do now have a 7-9 member Board, he wasn't sure, but he was certain that it was larger than the original three. Also there is a pastoral search committee that contains some Board members and some others. It looks like they've restructured their leadership for the better with more accountability and more shared responsibility by trusted members of the church. Best wishes to this church and it's future.

It would be interesting to know their selection process. I wonder if they are considering each pastoral candidate by themselves and then if the committee decides they are the one sending it to the church for an up and down yes or no vote?

Having only had one preacher try out in all of this time makes me think that might be the case. If they continue their current rate of having preachers in "God's time" might be sometime next year!

Does anybody know if TPC is an affiliated church? I am guessing not as most larger ones are not plus the rules require you have the words "United Pentecostal Church" in your church name. Of course they could technically have it underneath "The Pentecostal Church" I guess. I have never seen the church sign so I don't know.

[deacon blues]

Had lunch yesterday with a former member who said all of the original board are no longer serving. The board consists of all new members. Elder Epley, still no pastor. Seeker man, you're not being fair to the Elder. All he asked was "still no pastor?" Your mean spirited assault on his convictions demonstrates a lack of decorum and perhaps a tinge of bitterness. You should apologize.

[Bishop Cleatus]

You owe me an apology for making me read your post twice.

[Godzchild]

You owe me an apology for making me read your post twice.

:heeheehee

[CC1]

Had lunch yesterday with a former member who said all of the original board are no longer serving. The board consists of all new members. Elder Epley, still no pastor. Seeker man, you're not being fair to the Elder. All he asked was "still no pastor?" Your mean spirited assault on his convictions demonstrates a lack of decorum and perhaps a tinge of bitterness. You should apologize.

That brings up some fascinating questions! Who nominated the new board members since there is no pastor? I am guessing possibly the TN DS. I assume the church voted on the new board but I could be wrong as according to my wife and elder Epley I have been wrong many times before.

[BonnieFried]

I believe they voted in an interim pastor and he then appointed the new board members. At least from what I understand the interim pastor has the same authority over the existing or new board whichever is the case.

[Steve Epley]

Just asking?

[CC1]

I believe they voted in an interim pastor and he then appointed the new board members. At least from what I understand the interim pastor has the same authority over the existing or new board whichever is the case.

Ah! Do you know who the "interim pastor" is or are we talking about the TN DS that has been helping out?

[BonnieFried]

I believe they elected the DS as their interim pastor. Can't imagine him having to do both jobs this long.

[Steve Epley]

Just as I figured. No stones to throw but many times when DS get put into this position they end op being the canidate of choice because they nurse the church through these difficult times and operate the choosing of canidates. Some states will allow DS's to pastor also.

[Timmy]

Hey! We'll never get this to a 1/4 million views, if somebody doesn't

:bump

it!

[seekerman]

Is this thread ever gonna die?

[Godzchild]

Is this thread ever gonna die?

:nah

[rgcraig]

Is this thread ever gonna die?

Not as long as you post on it! :happydance

[Godzchild]

Not as long as you post on it! :happydance

:heeheehee

[deacon blues]

Just as I figured. No stones to throw but many times when DS get put into this position they end op being the canidate of choice because they nurse the church through these difficult times and operate the choosing of canidates. Some states will allow DS's to pastor also.

TN requires DS to be full-time. He would have to resign if he took the church permanently.

[deacon blues]

Is this thread ever gonna die?

Not as long as the Romanist system still exists!

[seekerman]

Not as long as you post on it! :happydance

Yes, you have a point there. :)

[CC1]

not as long as the romanist system still exists!

roflmbo!!!

[seekerman]

Not as long as the Romanist system still exists!

I see I'm getting through to some people. This is encouraging!! :)

[UnTraditional]

Somebody kill this thread already and enjoy a bacon doughnut!

http://www.livingpaleo.com/articles/images/bacon-donut.jpg

:thumbsup

[Miss Scarlett]

1200 calories alone, and if that's grease on it......UGH!

[Cindy]

Somebody kill this thread already and enjoy a bacon doughnut!

http://www.livingpaleo.com/articles/images/bacon-donut.jpg

:thumbsup

Did somebody say Bacon?

:bacon :bacondream

[SiblingRevelry]

I love bacon but that's just GROSS.

[revdtzombik]

TN requires DS to be full-time. He would have to resign if he took the church permanently.

The TN District UPCI Conference is in April...There will be voting at that time that could make a difference....
Bro. Brown is an excellent man of GOD, in either positions, the District is blessed to have him..

[seekerman]

This sure is interesting.

:stirpot

[Godzchild]

That doughnut looks really :vomit~ Bacon with something sweet????? :nah I am not a meat eater but if I was, it still sounds really.....:eeeew

[Godzchild]

I love bacon but that's just GROSS.

GREASY and GROSS~ :heeheehee

[golive4Him2]

The bacon donuts I've heard of are glazed with maple syrup or icing. Same way some people like the syrup from pancakes to puddle up on their bacon or sausage. This kind of does it for you. I've never had one but have read about them. Never heard a bad review yet.

[RandyWayne]

Looks like a prominent Memphis, TN area UPC pastor has unexpectedly suddenly resigned after 20 years.

I was told that on Sunday visitors were asked to leave, told that they were not having service and at that point the pastor came out and announced his resignation.

While this church is not a "mega church" it is a fairly large one (around 800 members according to their website) and has been stable for years so I am sure they will have no problem finding a new pastor.

Will be interesting to see where the resigning pastor goes.

bump

[webe123]

Wait! I thought the Memphis church already voted a pastor in? Did I miss something?

[RandyWayne]

Did ya hear?? Did ya hear???

Oops. I probably said too much. . . . .

[webe123]

Did ya hear?? Did ya hear???

Oops. I probably said too much. . . . . LOL! Be careful! Some of these forumites will hang you from a yard arm for "gossiping"!

[CC1]

Wait! I thought the Memphis church already voted a pastor in? Did I miss something?

If they did nobody has reported it here that I know of. Last we heard they were waiting on "God's timing" and since it is more than six months apparently God is very slow.:happydance

[Steve Epley]

If they did nobody has reported it here that I know of. Last we heard they were waiting on "God's timing" and since it is more than six months apparently God is very slow.:happydance

I think they voted the DS in for an interim pastor while they are choosing it was implied maybe he will resign the DS and take the church he can't do both in TN which is sad. How much is a DS in TN required to do?

[CC1]

I think they voted the DS in for an interim pastor while they are choosing it was implied maybe he will resign the DS and take the church he can't do both in TN which is sad. How much is a DS in TN required to do?

I remember years ago when the MS district made that rule I was thinking the same thing. Just how much time does it take being a DS???

[seekerman]

Just a little over 1000 views and this baby will be at quarter million. Can it be done?

[tex]

robert tisdale coming to try out on sunday.
kevin blake tried out last month.
47 candidates were in the hunt.

[tex]

ron brown is awesome. wished he could stay.

[revrandy]

DS is interim Pastor... I don't know that he wants it... but he is a great man... Interesting to see that 47 are in the "hunt" so to speak... I wonder how much God really has to do with this stuff anymore... I don't think it's much...imo...

[seekerman]

So how long before we can refer to the building in memphis as bro so-and-so's church? It was bro black's church for so long it's going to take a time of adjustment to change identification of the building.

[CC1]

Just a little over 1000 views and this baby will be at quarter million. Can it be done?

As our President would say "YES WE CAN!!!":thumbsup

[CC1]

DS is interim Pastor... I don't know that he wants it... but he is a great man... Interesting to see that 47 are in the "hunt" so to speak... I wonder how much God really has to do with this stuff anymore... I don't think it's much...imo...

Be careful revrandy! I learned very quickly that any questioning of the search for a pastor was met with quick and certain accusations of me not being concerned about doing things in "God's Time".

I am guessing you may hear the same about your speculation about the number of candidates being considered. If in fact it is true over 40 men are in the running you can rest assured that dog and pony show is all just a part of "God's Plan" and partially explains why "God's Timing" seems to be very, very, very slow! (takes a long time to work through that long of a list!).

Of course I would not be surprised to find that that number given his highly exaggerated. It seems hard to believe they would seriously consider more than a handful of names beyond the search committee.

[Barb]

So how long before we can refer to the building in memphis as bro so-and-so's church? It was bro black's church for so long it's going to take a time of adjustment to change identification of the building.

And therein lies much of the problem...not with your perception of that church, but with the fact that he began to think of it as TB's church.

[webe123]

Of course I would not be surprised to find that that number given his highly exaggerated. It seems hard to believe they would seriously consider more than a handful of names beyond the search committee.


Yeah, that number seems a bit high. But I figured that it would be a mess to try and search through all the names and applications that were put in.

Still, you would think they would be at least CLOSE to choosing somebody.

Or at least have it narrowed down to a very small handful of people?

I think whoever wins the pastorship for that church is knida like winning a jackpot. Maybe that is why so many have tried out.

It also makes me wonder who is really in it for what they can do for the church and who is in it for what the church can do for them?

It used to be years ago that people would pray over decisions like this and if God lead them to a church, things would work out in their favor and they would know God led them there.

Today at a lot of churches, politics seems to have taken over. When that does happen, then it is really no longer God who is in control, but man! (Sometimes I wonder what God thinks when that happens?)

Kinda sad when you think about it!

The church is not supposed to "belong" to one or two board members or even the entire congregation, it is HIS church! HE died and paid the price for it, you would think people would enquire of God what he wants for it.

[CC1]

I think whoever wins the pastorship for that church is knida like winning a jackpot. Maybe that is why so many have tried out.




Maybe financially but remember at the end of the day they still have to live in Memphis! I love Tennessee but Memphis is the armpit of our state for the most part. There are some nice areas like Germantown but if you take a wrong turn your life is at risk more than probably any town in our state.

[Timmy]

robert tisdale coming to try out on sunday.
kevin blake tried out last month.
47 candidates were in the hunt.

Well, all they have to do is ask each of the 47 candidates one simple question:

"Did God call you here?"

Of course, one will say Yes and 46 will say No. Problem Solved!

You're welcome. :heeheehee

[Timmy]

Oh, look! We're about to hit a quarter million views! Maybe today! :woot

[RandyWayne]

Well, all they have to do is ask each of the 47 candidates one simple question:

"Did God call you here?"

Of course, one will say Yes and 46 will say No. Problem Solved!

You're welcome. :heeheehee

:slaphappy

[seekerman]

Well, all they have to do is ask each of the 47 candidates one simple question:

"Did God call you here?"

Of course, one will say Yes and 46 will say No. Problem Solved!

You're welcome. :heeheehee

Lol!

:thumbsup

[seekerman]

Over quarter millon views and nobody's said a thing!

You people need to stay on top of this a bit better!

[TGBTG]

Ok, I don't know much about this local assembly, but something that's puzzling to me about this scenario (and this also applies to a lot of denominations) is the fact that there is not a mature believer (or mature believers) in that congregation that can help steer that local assembly under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit?

Why do we have "pastors" applying for church position? This idea of the professional pastor is really troubling.

If there are no mature believers in that congregation to lead the assembly, then what exactly has the pastor been teaching his flock all these years???

Paul's instructions about appointing overseers for the local assembly was choosing someone from within that local assembly...

Ofcourse, sometimes, the believers in newly established local assembly will be new in the faith, so they need someone who is already grounded in the faith to lead them.

But, eventually, the local assembly should have enough mature believers to function as church leadership.

We see that in Paul's ministry over and over again. He established local assemblies in places, left Timothy and/ Titus to take care of the place but eventually, they were to appoint overseers from within that local assembly.

But today, we have too many professional pastors who "apply for the job and get the offer..."

Our problem is far bigger than just scandals. Our pastors need to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. It's not enough to just attend "church" on Sunday and Wednesday to just keep hearing sermons over and over again.

In fact, Pastors should not be preaching all the time. Let your flock also teach (1 Cor 14). How do professional pastors even know if their flock is growing spiritually, when it's just hear a sermon every sunday and wednesday over and over again???

Man, we need the body ministry real bad...

Anyhow, carry on...just my musings...

[Farfel]

Ok, I don't know much about this local assembly, but something that's puzzling to me about this scenario (and this also applies to a lot of denominations) is the fact that there is not a mature believer (or mature believers) in that congregation that can help steer that local assembly under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit?

Why do we have "pastors" applying for church position? This idea of the professional pastor is really troubling.

If there are no mature believers in that congregation to lead the assembly, then what exactly has the pastor been teaching his flock all these years???

Paul's instructions about appointing overseers for the local assembly was choosing someone from within that local assembly...

Ofcourse, sometimes, the believers in newly established local assembly will be new in the faith, so they need someone who is already grounded in the faith to lead them.

But, eventually, the local assembly should have enough mature believers to function as church leadership.

We see that in Paul's ministry over and over again. He established local assemblies in places, left Timothy and/ Titus to take care of the place but eventually, they were to appoint overseers from within that local assembly.

But today, we have too many professional pastors who "apply for the job and get the offer..."

Our problem is far bigger than just scandals. Our pastors need to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. It's not enough to just attend "church" on Sunday and Wednesday to just keep hearing sermons over and over again.

In fact, Pastors should not be preaching all the time. Let your flock also teach (1 Cor 14). How do professional pastors even know if their flock is growing spiritually, when it's just hear a sermon every sunday and wednesday over and over again???

Man, we need the body ministry real bad...

Anyhow, carry on...just my musings...

I agree. Particularly in a church that size.

[Timmy]

Over quarter millon views and nobody's said a thing!

You people need to stay on top of this a bit better!

:party

[CC1]

Ok, I don't know much about this local assembly, but something that's puzzling to me about this scenario (and this also applies to a lot of denominations) is the fact that there is not a mature believer (or mature believers) in that congregation that can help steer that local assembly under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit?

Why do we have "pastors" applying for church position? This idea of the professional pastor is really troubling.

If there are no mature believers in that congregation to lead the assembly, then what exactly has the pastor been teaching his flock all these years???

Paul's instructions about appointing overseers for the local assembly was choosing someone from within that local assembly...

Ofcourse, sometimes, the believers in newly established local assembly will be new in the faith, so they need someone who is already grounded in the faith to lead them.

But, eventually, the local assembly should have enough mature believers to function as church leadership.

We see that in Paul's ministry over and over again. He established local assemblies in places, left Timothy and/ Titus to take care of the place but eventually, they were to appoint overseers from within that local assembly.

But today, we have too many professional pastors who "apply for the job and get the offer..."

Our problem is far bigger than just scandals. Our pastors need to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. It's not enough to just attend "church" on Sunday and Wednesday to just keep hearing sermons over and over again.

In fact, Pastors should not be preaching all the time. Let your flock also teach (1 Cor 14). How do professional pastors even know if their flock is growing spiritually, when it's just hear a sermon every sunday and wednesday over and over again???

Man, we need the body ministry real bad...

Anyhow, carry on...just my musings...

The day we start pulling people out of the pews to preach will be a sad one for me. People have different giftings and the gift of communication is a special one not many people have.

I don't want to have to endure a terrible public speaker like 90% of people are to try and dig out the nuggets of the word of God. You are welcome to.

[TGBTG]

The day we start pulling people out of the pews to preach will be a sad one for me. People have different giftings and the gift of communication is a special one not many people have.

I don't want to have to endure a terrible public speaker like 90% of people are to try and dig out the nuggets of the word of God. You are welcome to.

Ok, but the local assembly is not and should not be like a conference where we have a conference speaker and others just sit and listen.

1 Cor 14 says "everyone in the assembly can prophesy..." Fellowship should involve the participation of the entire body. So even a stammerer should be allowed to speak if he/she has something to share.

Public speaking is not a requirement in 1 Tim 3 or Titus 1 for an overseer. Being an orator is something that's magnified in the world. Church should not be about oratory skills, not even in the least bit.

And how do we know members in our congregation are growing in the knowledge of the word of God if they are not encouraged to share what they know in the assembly of the saints?

[webe123]

Ok, but the local assembly is not and should not be like a conference where we have a conference speaker and others just sit and listen.

1 Cor 14 says "everyone in the assembly can prophesy..." Fellowship should involve the participation of the entire body. So even a stammerer should be allowed to speak if he/she has something to share.

Public speaking is not a requirement in 1 Tim 3 or Titus 1 for an overseer. Being an orator is something that's magnified in the world. Church should not be about oratory skills, not even in the least bit.

And how do we know members in our congregation are growing in the knowledge of the word of God if they are not encouraged to share what they know in the assembly of the saints?

Well if you have ever read the book Azusa Street, you would know that yes, SOMETIMES they would have people from the congregation stand up and address the congregation...HOWEVER...even in that kind of atmosphere, the people that spoke were led of the Spirit.

But as far as "choosing someone from the congregation" for a PASTOR SHIP? That is a bit much, sorry, but it just is.

Not everyone can be a pastor, it is a special calling and annointing that God puts on a person, but everyone can be one of Gods messangers or "preachers" in a way.

Jesus said: Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

That does not mean that he meant everyone should have a shot at pastoring a church. He was speaking more of spreading the Gospel.

And for the record....yes.... I agree that there are a lot of saints that need to grow up spiritually and take their place in the church as a mature christian, but pastoring is a totally different story.

And just to get back on topic....how many people have tried out so far?

I think that "number" will grow in size...no matter if it is true or not! It looks better on paper! LOL!

[Truthseeker]

If the church was run with elders like early church was instead of one man show then there wouldn't be the broken system we have today.

[TGBTG]

Well if you have ever read the book Azusa Street, you would know that yes, SOMETIMES they would have people from the congregation stand up and address the congregation...HOWEVER...even in that kind of atmosphere, the people that spoke were led of the Spirit.
Azusa's decline if I may so say began with the one man show and if you don't see it like I see it, leave. That's what a one man show will always cause anyways.

Remember, the revival was not as a result of a man show, but a group of believers.
But as far as "choosing someone from the congregation" for a PASTOR SHIP? That is a bit much, sorry, but it just is.
A bit much?? Well, isn't the pastor applying for the job coming from a particular congregation? So it's okay to have the pastor come from another congregation but not the local one?

We are supposed to make disciples of Christ. If after like 5 or 10 years, the members of congregation cannot help lead the fellowship, wow! something's wrong somewhere.

In 2 Tim 2, Paul told Timothy to teach others who shall be able to teach others also.

2 Tim 2
1 You then, my child, be strengthened by the grace that is in Christ Jesus,
2 and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men[a] who will be able to teach others also.

Something ain't right if after a good number of years, the flock is just expecting another human to come and keep speaking to them every sunday morning.

Not everyone can be a pastor, it is a special calling and annointing that God puts on a person, but everyone can be one of Gods messangers or "preachers" in a way.

What scripture do you have for this?

Matter of fact, Paul said "If a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing..."
So every man can function as an overseer. Of course, the qualifications laid out must also be met.

Jesus said: Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

That does not mean that he meant everyone should have a shot at pastoring a church. He was speaking more of spreading the Gospel.
Paul said anyone can aspire to be an overseer. They just have to meet the qualifications.
1 Tim 3
1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
2 Therefore an overseer[a] must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,[b] sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

And for the record....yes.... I agree that there are a lot of saints that need to grow up spiritually and take their place in the church as a mature christian, but pastoring is a totally different story.
But how can the pastor know his saints are even maturing if the saints don't get to share their insights of scripture in the local assembly?

Pastor is a totally different story only because we have unconsciously made it into a stardom

And just to get back on topic....how many people have tried out so far?

I think that "number" will grow in size...no matter if it is true or not! It looks better on paper! LOL!
Biblically, trying out should be meeting the qualifications of 1 Tim 3 and then functioning in the capacity of overseer for a while to test them before they are then officially overseers

I am curious how these pastors try out for the position. They come and preach one sermon??

[webe123]

Azusa's decline if I may so say began with the one man show and if you don't see it like I see it, leave. That's what a one man show will always cause anyways.

Sorry INCORRECT! Azusa decline did not have to do with a one man show at all! It had to do with the the church itself! Read the book! One man cannot STOP a move of God! I don't care if he is a pastor. If he stands in Gods way, then God has a way of removing him from the flock. No one is so powerful they cannot be removed. Nor should they be.

What you are doing is putting ALL men of God that are pastors into one little box that is your view of them. They must all be power grabbers.....that is simply a lie! A lot of pastors make sacrifices for their congregations and are not even given a thank you as a reward.

If you really think it is great for people from the congregation to get up and pastor the church because one man will so be totally stuck on power, I feel sorry for you!

Remember, the revival was not as a result of a man show, but a group of believers.

I never said it was! You are puttng words in my mouth! But if you would take time to read the book, you would ALSO know that some of the men that led that church, spent time in prayer for hours, sometimes days just to get a message to bring to the congregation. They did not sound like Power hungry people to me. And may I point out that the original church of Azusa never HAD a pastor! There WAS no official pastor but me WERE there that lead the congregation....they did not just close their eyes and pick someone out of the congregation to lead them! You would have known this if you would of read the book!


A bit much?? Well, isn't the pastor applying for the job coming from a particular congregation? So it's okay to have the pastor come from another congregation but not the local one?

No it IS a bit much in the way you want it to happen! The person in question may be coming from another church, but usually that person has had time in the ministry. Not some saint that would not even know how to lead a congregation in prayer, much less handle any problems that came up with the church!! SO YES... it IS a bit much for what you are wanting. Face it, congregational people are NOT a perfect fit for a pastor. Can they do other things? Well of course they can. But what you are suggesting is crazy.

We are supposed to make disciples of Christ. If after like 5 or 10 years, the members of congregation cannot help lead the fellowship, wow! something's wrong somewhere.

And again, you seem to be missing a grand canyon of a POINT that there is a big difference in mature christians and a person called to lead the people of God. Two totally and completely seperate things. For one, there is a measure of responsibility that goes with being a pastor that would CRUSH most members of a church. Don't even TRY to lecture me on this point..I KNOW what goes on in a pastors home. Being a pastor is way more responsibility than eating fried chicken and visiting the sick! When you are a REAL pastor you feel a responsibility to the flock. Again, this is not about power grabbing, IF YOU ARE A REAL PASTOR....it is about being accountable to God for the people you are supposed to be leading and guiding.

In 2 Tim 2, Paul told Timothy to teach others who shall be able to teach others also.

2 Tim 2
1 You then, my child, be strengthened by the grace that is in Christ Jesus,
2 and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men[a] who will be able to teach others also.

Something ain't right if after a good number of years, the flock is just expecting another human to come and keep speaking to them every sunday morning.

Something also is not right in the way you are interpeting that scriupture! In the first place, it was talking about making mature christians being able to be entrusted to different positions in the church.... but again....a pastorship is a whole different ballgame!



What scripture do you have for this?

Matter of fact, Paul said "If a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing..."
So every man can function as an overseer. Of course, the qualifications laid out must also be met.

YES the QUALIFICATIONS are exactly what I am talking about.Mmost in a congregation are not even in the running for BEING a pastor.... so why don't we start with the scripture you are taking out of context? He goes into specific detail in that particular scripture about what is REQUIRED for that office! The fact is most members are not even trying out for that particular office and if some did and were not called, the burdens of being a pastor would crush them! Literally. Again, please don't lecture me on what it takes to be a pastor and that anyone can do it! NO! Anyone cannot!


Paul said anyone can aspire to be an overseer. They just have to meet the qualifications.
1 Tim 3
1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
2 Therefore an overseer[a] must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,[b] sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

Again, you are talking about two different things....those that are wanting be pastors .....and those like YOU want...to just "pick someone from the congregation" to fill this office....sorry, it is not that simple. Period!

First of all theres are not only meeting the qualifications of a pastor to be chosen of God, but you also have to be called of God in that area. There are a LOT and I mean a LOT of people thinking they should be preachers or pastors inpentecost today and are absolutely miserable in their positions.

That is not the will of God, it is because some may have misinterpeted the calling they have on their lives when God wanted them to go in a completely different direction. For example, the Lord may move on someone to speak or...even give a tounges and interpetation to the congregation....this person can then confuse that with the will of God that now they should somehow be a pastor or preacher when that may not be the case at all!

Again, there is a whole lot to being a pastor than just meeting the requirements. If you do meet the requirements then that is a great first step, but let me ask you something....what if that person meets all the requirements and is a horrible person dealing with the problems that people of God have in their lives? What if that person cannot handle the pressure of being paastor very well? Then all of the great preaching they may do goes right out the window when they have a nervous breakdown!

I just spoke to my former pastor a couple of nights ago and I will never forget what he told me about pastoring a church (He pastored our church for 15 years before having to step down because of sickenss..so we are in a pastorial search at our church ourselves!)

He said pastoring is about 10% preaching and 90% connecting with other people. If you are not great at the people side of things nor can handle the pressure that comes WITH pastoring, then the job may not be for you! It is that simple. And most congregational members are simply not equipped when it comes to pastoring a church!


But how can the pastor know his saints are even maturing if the saints don't get to share their insights of scripture in the local assembly?

Pastor is a totally different story only because we have unconsciously made it into a stardom

Read what I posted ABOVE! This has absolutely NOTHING to DO with stardom or powergrabbing...not in a REAL PASTOR! I don't know what kind of pastors YOU have had, but the one's I have had are not like that at all. And if they are power grabbers then they are not the real thing that God has called to lead his flock!

And no one said anything about the saints not playing a major role in how the church develops! Most of the time in a lot of churches you cannot even get anyone to stand up and give a testimony from the saints...it is like pulling teeth. So exactly HOW are those same saints going to become a leader let alone a pastor, and do all of the things a pastor does?

I have said it before and will say it again..not everyone can be a pastor! That is not a shameful thing. There ARE different parts of the body and thge bible says that all of the parts of a chu7rch are important!

I don't care if you scrub the toilets of the church, you are still a vital part of the church.



Biblically, trying out should be meeting the qualifications of 1 Tim 3 and then functioning in the capacity of overseer for a while to test them before they are then officially overseers

I am curious how these pastors try out for the position. They come and preach one sermon??

A lot of people are assistant pastors or other leaders in the church for YEARS under a pastor before the launch out on their own.

AND YES you said the WORD..... TESTED....they are tested. Why? Because their pastor needs to see what they are made out of. Can they take the heat? Can they show love when even under tremendous pressure and problems? Can they seem to handle well different situations as they come along?

My former pastor that taught me when I was growing up and now has about 50 years in the ministry was under a pastor for years before he got his own church!

You can be sure he was "tested" by his pastor....but my point is that not everyone can make that cut .

Especially regular church members from the congregation like you want that never thought about pastoring in their life .

[larrylyates]

While it is certainly true that Paul did, in fact say:

1 Tim 3
1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
2 Therefore an overseer[a] must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

It is important to bear in mind that it was the very same Apostle who said:

[B]Eph_4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

1Co_12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

And we find this warning in James:
James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

It is readily apparent from scripture that the office of the Pastor is not something one can simply presume to place himself in. It is a divine calling and appointment not to be sought out lightly. There are many saints in the Church who serve vital functions in the Body and often minister powerfully in the Gifts. That does not necessarily qualify them to Pastor. Those whom God calls He will qualify, for they will, if serious, be diligent to show themselves approved unto God.

That being said, I do find it sad that a given Church would have to seek beyond its own walls for qualified leadership. It is the function of the "five-fold ministry" to equip the saints for the work of ministry.

Thankfully, there is a movement in the Body of Christ that is taking Church beyond the four walls and to the people. The Saints Movement is coming and it is coming fast. Our traditional models are going to be challenged in the coming days. The result will not be well received by many. It will be a real heart check!

[TGBTG]

While it is certainly true that Paul did, in fact say:

1 Tim 3
1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
2 Therefore an overseer[a] must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

It is important to bear in mind that it was the very same Apostle who said:

Eph_4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

1Co_12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

And we find this warning in James:
James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

It is readily apparent from scripture that the office of the Pastor is not something one can simply presume to place himself in. It is a divine calling and appointment not to be sought out lightly. There are many saints in the Church who serve vital functions in the Body and often minister powerfully in the Gifts. That does not necessarily qualify them to Pastor. Those whom God calls He will qualify, for they will, if serious, be diligent to show themselves approved unto God.

[B]That being said, I do find it sad that a given Church would have to seek beyond its own walls for qualified leadership. It is the function of the "five-fold ministry" to equip the saints for the work of ministry.

Thankfully, there is a movement in the Body of Christ that is taking Church beyond the four walls and to the people. The Saints Movement is coming and it is coming fast. Our traditional models are going to be challenged in the coming days. The result will not be well received by many. It will be a real heart check!
This right here is what I have been trying to say in so many words, which was why I brought up the maturity of the saints.

My point was not that anyone could function in that office. I was really trying to communicate that if a local assembly is seeking beyond its own walls for qualified leadership (after so many years of a guy being their pastor), then what exactly has he been teaching them all these years?

Saints should be prepared for the work of the ministry (including Pastoring).

Those that should be "applying" for the pastorate should be from within the assembly. They should be tested like 1 Tim 3 says and then officially ordained if they pass the test.

[webe123]

This right here is what I have been trying to say in so many words, which was why I brought up the maturity of the saints.

My point was not that anyone could function in that office. I was really trying to communicate that if a local assembly is seeking beyond its own walls for qualified leadership (after so many years of a guy being their pastor), then what exactly has he been teaching them all these years?

Saints should be prepared for the work of the ministry (including Pastoring).

Those that should be "applying" for the pastorate should be from within the assembly. They should be tested like 1 Tim 3 says and then officially ordained if they pass the test.


But you need to consider that not EVERY CHURCH is a mega church of thousands of people where they can choose from. A lot of smaller churches have ONE person that can pastor and most of the other people are simply saints.

You take a church of 50 people for example....in a cross section of that church, there is not going to be a whole lot to choose from that is probably going to be pastor material. Thus, churches look OUTSIDE their congregations to find someone who is qualified.

I do not see the problem with that frankly.

Not every church has numbers to choose from within the congregation. And even if they have a good number of people, how many of THOSE are going to be able to even meet the qualifications the bible gives for pastoring...let alone be able to take the hardships that come with the job?

[Tlswift2009]

Ok, I don't know much about this local assembly, but something that's puzzling to me about this scenario (and this also applies to a lot of denominations) is the fact that there is not a mature believer (or mature believers) in that congregation that can help steer that local assembly under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit?

Why do we have "pastors" applying for church position? This idea of the professional pastor is really troubling.

If there are no mature believers in that congregation to lead the assembly, then what exactly has the pastor been teaching his flock all these years???

Paul's instructions about appointing overseers for the local assembly was choosing someone from within that local assembly...

Ofcourse, sometimes, the believers in newly established local assembly will be new in the faith, so they need someone who is already grounded in the faith to lead them.

But, eventually, the local assembly should have enough mature believers to function as church leadership.

We see that in Paul's ministry over and over again. He established local assemblies in places, left Timothy and/ Titus to take care of the place but eventually, they were to appoint overseers from within that local assembly.

But today, we have too many professional pastors who "apply for the job and get the offer..."

Our problem is far bigger than just scandals. Our pastors need to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. It's not enough to just attend "church" on Sunday and Wednesday to just keep hearing sermons over and over again.

In fact, Pastors should not be preaching all the time. Let your flock also teach (1 Cor 14). How do professional pastors even know if their flock is growing spiritually, when it's just hear a sermon every sunday and wednesday over and over again???

Man, we need the body ministry real bad...

Anyhow, carry on...just my musings...
Hey Brother, I'm with you 100%. I have allowed over the 22 years of my pastoring for members to come forth on bible study night and teach on various subjects; this is to test them and to gauge how they are coming along in their understabding, and ability to construct and teach from the bible on many various passages: IT HAS SO BUILT UP OUR CHURCH BODY AND THE PEOPLE'S ESTEEM {"for the perfection (growth-development-maturity) of God's people}!!! Sometimes I will give the members about a week's notice to prepare to teach; oftentimes I may have about 3 persons to teach that night; sometimes I give church tests/examiniations on the bible events-etc, and I tell you it has really built up and given personal growth/edification, and membership growth. I remember when other people heard back in the 90's what we were doing; our church filled up on a consistant basis on Wednesday nights; of course; this cause me**jealousy**problems within the city's populace of other lazy, nonvisionary Pastors-lol...I am NOT a Pastor that's afraid to share in the work of the ministry, nor am I a pastor who's not familiar with the fact that I'm suppose to build up, empower, and equip God's people for Kingdom Ministry-God has rewarded both of my church ministries during these 22 years tremendously, plus-it garneres more respect within our local assembly; everybody truly feels a part of the working of the ministry in some form; whether its' speaking-teaching-song ministry-hospitality-carehome-street evangelism-etc: YOU'RE ON POINT WITH YOUR CONCERN!!! Most of our church members are far AHEAD of others in the word, and the handling of God's word in church, and within the community, and I have received numerous calls over the years for how EFFECTIVE our ministry has been in many people's lives...

[TGBTG]

Hey Brother, I'm with you 100%. I have allowed over the 22 years of my pastoring for members to come forth on bible study night and teach on various subjects; this is to test them and to gauge how they are coming along in their understabding, and ability to construct and teach from the bible on many various passages: IT HAS SO BUILT UP OUR CHURCH BODY AND THE PEOPLE'S ESTEEM {"for the perfection (growth-development-maturity) of God's people}!!! Sometimes I will give the members about a week's notice to prepare to teach; oftentimes I may have about 3 persons to teach that night; sometimes I give church tests/examiniations on the bible events-etc, and I tell you it has really built up and given personal growth/edification, and membership growth. I remember when other people heard back in the 90's what we were doing; our church filled up on a consistant basis on Wednesday nights; of course; this cause me**jealousy**problems within the city's populace of other lazy, nonvisionary Pastors-lol...I am NOT a Pastor that's afraid to share in the work of the ministry, nor am I a pastor who's not familiar with the fact that I'm suppose to build up, empower, and equip God's people for Kingdom Ministry-God has rewarded both of my church ministries during these 22 years tremendously, plus-it garneres more respect within our local assembly; everybody truly feels a part of the working of the ministry in some form; whether its' speaking-teaching-song ministry-hospitality-carehome-street evangelism-etc: YOU'RE ON POINT WITH YOUR CONCERN!!! Most of our church members are far AHEAD of others in the word, and the handling of God's word in church, and within the community, and I have received numerous calls over the years for how EFFECTIVE our ministry has been in many people's lives...

I am glad you are a Pastor, yet you see what I am saying...:thumbsup

[kclee4jc]

While it is certainly true that Paul did, in fact say:

1 Tim 3
1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
2 Therefore an overseer[a] must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

It is important to bear in mind that it was the very same Apostle who said:

[B]Eph_4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

1Co_12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

And we find this warning in James:
James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

It is readily apparent from scripture that the office of the Pastor is not something one can simply presume to place himself in. It is a divine calling and appointment not to be sought out lightly. There are many saints in the Church who serve vital functions in the Body and often minister powerfully in the Gifts. That does not necessarily qualify them to Pastor. Those whom God calls He will qualify, for they will, if serious, be diligent to show themselves approved unto God.

That being said, I do find it sad that a given Church would have to seek beyond its own walls for qualified leadership. It is the function of the "five-fold ministry" to equip the saints for the work of ministry.

Thankfully, there is a movement in the Body of Christ that is taking Church beyond the four walls and to the people. The Saints Movement is coming and it is coming fast. Our traditional models are going to be challenged in the coming days. The result will not be well received by many. It will be a real heart check!

I'd like to hear more about this. You should start a new thread and expound on it more.

[navygoat1998]

I'd like to hear more about this. You should start a new thread and expound on it more.

Its hard to stay away! I knew you would be back to walk among the AFF. :happydance

[Esther]

This right here is what I have been trying to say in so many words, which was why I brought up the maturity of the saints.

My point was not that anyone could function in that office. I was really trying to communicate that if a local assembly is seeking beyond its own walls for qualified leadership (after so many years of a guy being their pastor), then what exactly has he been teaching them all these years?

Saints should be prepared for the work of the ministry (including Pastoring).

Those that should be "applying" for the pastorate should be from within the assembly. They should be tested like 1 Tim 3 says and then officially ordained if they pass the test.


That is not the answer. Know of a church now trying to clean up a mess left by pastor voted in that was already there.

I think prayer fasting for the will of God is the best way to go.

[Farfel]

That is not the answer. Know of a church now trying to clean up a mess left by pastor voted in that was already there.

I think prayer fasting for the will of God is the best way to go.

I know of a church that dissolved because of a pastor that was brought in. It happens both ways.

[deacon blues]

Maybe financially but remember at the end of the day they still have to live in Memphis! I love Tennessee but Memphis is the armpit of our state for the most part. There are some nice areas like Germantown but if you take a wrong turn your life is at risk more than probably any town in our state.

I've lived here for 13 years and I've not had a scintilla of fear or problems. Here in the 'burbs our police forces are strong and they keep the crime out. Memphis gets a bum rap for it's crime statistics, but much of that happens in isolated areas that are notorious crime hot spots. I drive into Memphis all of the time without any fear. There are many quiet and peaceful and upscale neighborhoods and areas. It's a great town rich in culture, history, food and music. It's our home.

[CC1]

I've lived here for 13 years and I've not had a scintilla of fear or problems. Here in the 'burbs our police forces are strong and they keep the crime out. Memphis gets a bum rap for it's crime statistics, but much of that happens in isolated areas that are notorious crime hot spots. I drive into Memphis all of the time without any fear. There are many quiet and peaceful and upscale neighborhoods and areas. It's a great town rich in culture, history, food and music. It's our home.

Without a doubt you are correct that there are many nice suburbs. That still doesn't take away from the actual Memphis that I don't like.

My first clue it might not be a safe place was when I first started going there on business almost ten years ago and when I had to stay in a hotel just outside of Germantown it had a high fence all the way around it and the gas station down the road not only had the cashier behind bullet proof glass but they did not even have a hole big enough to put products through for them to ring up! It was just a slit for credit cards and cash. You held up what you wanted to buy and they rang it up from memory.

My SIL was alone there on a business trip and decided to check out Beale Street for some live music. He foolishly decided to save a few bucks and parked his car a few blocks away rather than the Peabody's parking garage like normal folks do. About 10 or 11 pm when he got to his car he was carjacked. Forced to drive around with a gun to the back of his head looking for an ATM for him to get them money out. Luckily when they got to the ATM there was a lot of activity and they got spooked. Stole his laptop and ran off to their buddies car that had been following them.

So yes you may have nice burbs and Germantown but there is plenty that is not nice! I have taken a wrong turn a few times and had to have a prayer meeting in my car praying for my safety. I just don't want to live in a place you have to be so careful about where you go. In 2010 Forbes named Memphis the most dangerous city to live in. I have a hard time believing that though. I would think Detroit, Chicago, and St. Louis should have Memphis beat!

Besides it is a long held tradition for Nashvillians to hate Memphis and Memphis folks to hate Nashville (although I don't think RG Craig does).

[StillStanding]

I've lived here for 13 years and I've not had a scintilla of fear or problems. Here in the 'burbs our police forces are strong and they keep the crime out. Memphis gets a bum rap for it's crime statistics, but much of that happens in isolated areas that are notorious crime hot spots. I drive into Memphis all of the time without any fear. There are many quiet and peaceful and upscale neighborhoods and areas. It's a great town rich in culture, history, food and music. It's our home.

DB defending the hood! Nice!

CC1 is letting one bad experience taint his view. I lived in Memphis for about 5 years and I enjoyed my time there for the most part. There are indeed parts of Memphis to avoid just as there are parts of Nashville to avoid. There did seem to be high racial tension while I lived in Memphis.

I now live in Nashville, and I must say that it seems to be a much safer city as a whole with a lot less racial tension.

Our cue to leave Memphis was when the school board (newly black majority) voted to give the multi-million dollar contract of computerizing the schools to a young black guy who started his new company three months before with very little capital. Financial stability didn't matter, ability to actually perform the job didn't matter, and a history of any success didn't matter. All that mattered was that his skin was black! Who did he replace? A small company named IBM!

What ended up happening was the black guy sub-contracted the work to IBM, costing the school district the extra money to give this guy his cut! The black guy was smart! It was the school board that was dumb!

[navygoat1998]

My SIL and BIL live in Collierville and attend Germantown Baptist Church.

[seguidordejesus]

DB defending the hood! Nice!

CC1 is letting one bad experience taint his view. I lived in Memphis for about 5 years and I enjoyed my time there for the most part. There are indeed parts of Memphis to avoid just as there are parts of Nashville to avoid. There did seem to be high racial tension while I lived in Memphis.

I now live in Nashville, and I must say that it seems to be a much safer city as a whole with a lot less racial tension.

Our cue to leave Memphis was when the school board (newly black majority) voted to give the multi-million dollar contract of computerizing the schools to a young black guy who started his new company three months before with very little capital. Financial stability didn't matter, ability to actually perform the job didn't matter, and a history of any success didn't matter. All that mattered was that his skin was black! Who did he replace? A small company named IBM!

What ended up happening was the black guy sub-contracted the work to IBM, costing the school district the extra money to give this guy his cut! The black guy was smart! It was the school board that was dumb!

Smart fella! :yourock

[CC1]

DB defending the hood! Nice!

CC1 is letting one bad experience taint his view. I lived in Memphis for about 5 years and I enjoyed my time there for the most part. There are indeed parts of Memphis to avoid just as there are parts of Nashville to avoid. There did seem to be high racial tension while I lived in Memphis.

I now live in Nashville, and I must say that it seems to be a much safer city as a whole with a lot less racial tension.

Our cue to leave Memphis was when the school board (newly black majority) voted to give the multi-million dollar contract of computerizing the schools to a young black guy who started his new company three months before with very little capital. Financial stability didn't matter, ability to actually perform the job didn't matter, and a history of any success didn't matter. All that mattered was that his skin was black! Who did he replace? A small company named IBM!

What ended up happening was the black guy sub-contracted the work to IBM, costing the school district the extra money to give this guy his cut! The black guy was smart! It was the school board that was dumb!

Not just one bad experience!

[StillStanding]

Not just one bad experience!

You just gotta' know the territory of where you are welcomed and not welcomed. Once you know the guidelines, you should be just fine! I'm sure it's the out-of-towners that get targeted. Sorry about your bad experiences!

[CC1]

You just gotta' know the territory of where you are welcomed and not welcomed. Once you know the guidelines, you should be just fine! I'm sure it's the out-of-towners that get targeted. Sorry about your bad experiences!

I said from the start that there are many nice suburbs and areas in Memphis like Germantown. I have driven through many beautiful old neighborhoods of mansions, etc.

That does not do away with my overall view of the city which is that it is one that is dangerous, has racial tension, and in the actual city / urban area has a lot of corrupt and incompetent government.

In other words the few bright spots don't change my overall opinion. However I understand the loyalty folks who live there or who have lived there have towards their city. I have just been blessed to live in two awesome metropolitan areas the last 30 years (Austin Texas and Nashville TN).

[revdtzombik]

You just gotta' know the territory of where you are welcomed and not welcomed. Once you know the guidelines, you should be just fine! I'm sure it's the out-of-towners that get targeted. Sorry about your bad experiences!

My wife and I have lived in the Memphis area now for less then 2 years. We do live in a newer subdivision which is in a nice area....close to MS, Collierville, and the interstate. We love our area..feel safe...and enjoy being so close to the city if we want to go..

The Lord Jesus died for all the souls in Memphis just as he did for anywhere else....People need salvation in order for their out look and ways to change...A burden is a burden and God sends whom HE pleases to carry out HIS work. We hope to be more involved in the Memphis work soon....

Blessings to you all,
The Rev

[deacon blues]

Without a doubt you are correct that there are many nice suburbs. That still doesn't take away from the actual Memphis that I don't like.

My first clue it might not be a safe place was when I first started going there on business almost ten years ago and when I had to stay in a hotel just outside of Germantown it had a high fence all the way around it and the gas station down the road not only had the cashier behind bullet proof glass but they did not even have a hole big enough to put products through for them to ring up! It was just a slit for credit cards and cash. You held up what you wanted to buy and they rang it up from memory.

My SIL was alone there on a business trip and decided to check out Beale Street for some live music. He foolishly decided to save a few bucks and parked his car a few blocks away rather than the Peabody's parking garage like normal folks do. About 10 or 11 pm when he got to his car he was carjacked. Forced to drive around with a gun to the back of his head looking for an ATM for him to get them money out. Luckily when they got to the ATM there was a lot of activity and they got spooked. Stole his laptop and ran off to their buddies car that had been following them.

So yes you may have nice burbs and Germantown but there is plenty that is not nice! I have taken a wrong turn a few times and had to have a prayer meeting in my car praying for my safety. I just don't want to live in a place you have to be so careful about where you go. In 2010 Forbes named Memphis the most dangerous city to live in. I have a hard time believing that though. I would think Detroit, Chicago, and St. Louis should have Memphis beat!

Besides it is a long held tradition for Nashvillians to hate Memphis and Memphis folks to hate Nashville (although I don't think RG Craig does).

I've gone to church services in some of the worst neighborhoods in Memphis. Never a problem. In fact I rarely hear of black on white or white on black crime. Most of the crime is black on black. You can go to neighborhoods in Nashville and find the same dangers. But if I had experienced what your SIL did I would not have fond memories either. Was this before or after the FedEx Forum was built?

[deacon blues]

My SIL and BIL live in Collierville and attend Germantown Baptist Church.

Well they are missing some of the best preaching in the Bluff City.

[deacon blues]

My wife and I have lived in the Memphis area now for less then 2 years. We do live in a newer subdivision which is in a nice area....close to MS, Collierville, and the interstate. We love our area..feel safe...and enjoy being so close to the city if we want to go..

The Lord Jesus died for all the souls in Memphis just as he did for anywhere else....People need salvation in order for their out look and ways to change...A burden is a burden and God sends whom HE pleases to carry out HIS work. We hope to be more involved in the Memphis work soon....

Blessings to you all,
The Rev

Memphis needs Jesus desperately. I love it here. Sometimes I go down to a terrible neighborhood to eat soul food at Melanie's Restaurant. I'm always the only white guy in the room. They love me there. I drew quite a crowd when I decided to try chitlins.

[navygoat1998]

Well they are missing some of the best preaching in the Bluff City.

I agree! How is that good preaching from Collierville??? Because I want to make a suggestion to them. They are part of the frozen chosen. :heeheehee

[RandyWayne]

Memphis needs Jesus desperately. I love it here. Sometimes I go down to a terrible neighborhood to eat soul food at Melanie's Restaurant. I'm always the only white guy in the room. They love me there. I drew quite a crowd when I decided to try chitlins.

:thumbsup

[CC1]

Memphis needs Jesus desperately. I love it here. Sometimes I go down to a terrible neighborhood to eat soul food at Melanie's Restaurant. I'm always the only white guy in the room. They love me there. I drew quite a crowd when I decided to try chitlins.

You are a brave man. I mean eating the chitlins, not being the only white guy there. Although that was probably a close second.

[navygoat1998]

I agree! How is that good preaching from Collierville??? Because I want to make a suggestion to them. They are part of the frozen chosen. :heeheehee

I am sorry Deacon I meant to say how far is that great preaching from Collierville. :smack

[Steve Epley]

They still waiting on the Lord?

[CC1]

They still waiting on the Lord?

I think your earlier prophecy became true and they made the DS their "interim" pastor with no end in sight.

[Steve Epley]

I think your earlier prophecy became true and they made the DS their "interim" pastor with no end in sight.

I am sure he is a good man and I do not mean this to be seen as critical but I have seen this many times either the official in charge becomes the pastor or prevents anyone he personally does not like from being pastor or causes more problems than solutions. I have helped with a few of these ordeals and in my experience get a good man in there the people will accept and get out. Since ministers love folks it is easy to get attached when helping a congregation through hardships and when a church is prosperous then sometimes our judgment can get clouded(again not directing this at this Elder). I imagine he is there for good. Which might be the best?

[canam]

I think your earlier prophecy became true and they made the DS their "interim" pastor with no end in sight.

Wrong he was re elected as DS !

[CC1]

Wrong he was re elected as DS !

Are they allowing him to continue as the "interim" pastor of TPC since it is not a permanent position?

[canam]

yes as far as i know !

[Jermyn Davidson]

yes as far as i know !

Aren't you from Memphis canam?
I am thinking that you said that once.

[canam]

Aren't you from Memphis canam?
I am thinking that you said that once.

Nope just have family in the area drove thorugh one time nice people treated us like kings and queens,funny story ;; stopped at mom and pop and the lady said how ya like our state i go well good thing i got GPS i never woulda made it this far ,she goes whaaahts a GPS , so i tried to explain:) i guess that means your country :)

[deacon blues]

I am sorry Deacon I meant to say how far is that great preaching from Collierville. :smack

On Sunday? 20-25 minutes.

[deacon blues]

The church in Memphis has had three candidates thus far with a new one on Sunday, a Brother Parkey from Bloomington, IN. Before him was an evangelist a few weeks back. I heard a great story this weekend from members of that church. They said that Brother Brown announced how that long time children's ministry leaders Brother and Sister D P were recently given a raise by the Board. They have served this church for many years and in the entire time they have been there, they had never been given a raise. I must say that these people are some of the finest folks you'd ever meet. I'm happy for them!

[CC1]

The church in Memphis has had three candidates thus far with a new one on Sunday, a Brother Parkey from Bloomington, IN. Before him was an evangelist a few weeks back. I heard a great story this weekend from members of that church. They said that Brother Brown announced how that long time children's ministry leaders Brother and Sister D P were recently given a raise by the Board. They have served this church for many years and in the entire time they have been there, they had never been given a raise. I must say that these people are some of the finest folks you'd ever meet. I'm happy for them!

So conservatively allowing for 2% inflation per year they would be making 10% less now than 5 years ago! I am thankful that my employer usually gives merit pay raises annually that are about the same as inflation. Churches should do the same for their staff members.

[returnman]

So conservatively allowing for 2% inflation per year they would be making 10% less now than 5 years ago! I am thankful that my employer usually gives merit pay raises annually that are about the same as inflation. Churches should do the same for their staff members.

Good one CC1.....that ought to kick this out another 260 pages of post.
It is an interesting thought given the rule/law of direct proportions. Church grows, tithes increase, pastors income goes up.

I find it admirable that the children's ministry leaders got anything in the first place as in most instances they along with the other ministry leaders do not.

[Esaias]

The church in Memphis has had three candidates thus far with a new one on Sunday, a Brother Parkey from Bloomington, IN. Before him was an evangelist a few weeks back. I heard a great story this weekend from members of that church. They said that Brother Brown announced how that long time children's ministry leaders Brother and Sister D P were recently given a raise by the Board. They have served this church for many years and in the entire time they have been there, they had never been given a raise. I must say that these people are some of the finest folks you'd ever meet. I'm happy for them!

(mumbles to himself) How can any of this be claimed to be the same religion described in the New Testament?

[golive4Him2]

(mumbles to himself) How can any of this be claimed to be the same religion described in the New Testament?

Why mumble. How would you handle the situation in a way that is befitting a religion that describes itself as a NT church? A Godly man came to help a congregation in time of need but has duties elsewhere once done. The congregation is large, stunned and heartbroken by a fallen pastor dearly loved for years. The church hasn't lost it's spirituality if anything it's drawn closer to God. It will take a certain, special man to take on the responsibility of a church in this situation. Many men might take the church on for the salary, some would likely take it for the status of pastoring a large church, there may even be some that would take it as a stepping stone to their own vision for themselves. If we don't take some time to work through the men's schedules we would likely miss God's will. Some think they know God's timing but really only God does and we do what we know to do until His will is put into place. Pray for TPC. To some it's a train wreck they can't turn away from and I understand because it's outlandish the way things happened but true saints of God, wanting the best for their church need prayer and a positive outlook for the future.

[deacon blues]

I for one am pulling for success and a bright future for this assembly! Been praying for yall!

[The truth]

First i will say that this is a p the son of bro and sis p. I can tell you that they have not had a raise and whoever is spreading these 2 faced lies needs to stop!! We are tired of all of the slander of what happened to this church and we are all tired of the people on this site who have nothing better to do than gossip about innocent people.

This page needs to be taken down and yall need to go read your bibles. We are tired of it !!!!!!!!!

[The truth]

i for one am pulling for success and a bright future for this assembly! Been praying for yall!

by posting who is preaching for us might be damaging other pastors churches that are trying out.

Please think about what you are doing YOUR not HELPING the situation.

By doing this you make it uncomfortable for future people to try out.

I mean if you were looking for another job would you want your boss to know,no you wouldn't they would probably fire you before you got a job. leave well enough alone.


And I am not hiding my profile this is A P #tired of it ALL on this SITE!!

[RandyWayne]

by posting who is preaching for us might be damaging other pastors churches that are trying out.

Please think about what you are doing

So is this supposed to be like a silent auction then?

[houston]

by posting who is preaching for us might be damaging other pastors churches that are trying out.

Please think about what you are doing

They have no business "trying out" if the churches that they pastor are in the dark about it.

I will return to under the rock from whence I came.

[houston]

So is this supposed to be like a silent auction then?

Only pastors are allowed to look for greener grass on the other side.

[The truth]

NO it is where the LORD leads you. some Pastors might fell that God has placed them into a area for a season and others are fine where they are


but if you feel called by GOD to move to a different field then by doing so is following the Will of GOD

[CC1]

First i will say that this is a p the son of bro and sis p. I can tell you that they have not had a raise and whoever is spreading these 2 faced lies needs to stop!! We are tired of all of the slander of what happened to this church and we are all tired of the people on this site who have nothing better to do than gossip about innocent people.

This page needs to be taken down and yall need to go read your bibles. We are tired of it !!!!!!!!!

Not quite sure where all of the anger is coming from. Unless I missed something the post about the folks getting a raise was a positive one, not one intended to be derogatory to anybody. If the person that posted that was told something in error it was a mistake but not one that was some kind of slander. Good grief!

If someone posted that my parents got a long overdue pay raise and it was not true I would correct them but not think there was some sort of slander involved. If I am missing something in your logic enlighten me.

[Praxeas]

by posting who is preaching for us might be damaging other pastors churches that are trying out.

Please think about what you are doing YOUR not HELPING the situation.

By doing this you make it uncomfortable for future people to try out.

I mean if you were looking for another job would you want your boss to know,no you wouldn't they would probably fire you before you got a job. leave well enough alone.


And I am not hiding my profile this is A P #tired of it ALL on this SITE!!
So you go to this church? In Memphis?

[Praxeas]

First i will say that this is a p the son of bro and sis p. I can tell you that they have not had a raise and whoever is spreading these 2 faced lies needs to stop!! We are tired of all of the slander of what happened to this church and we are all tired of the people on this site who have nothing better to do than gossip about innocent people.

This page needs to be taken down and yall need to go read your bibles. We are tired of it !!!!!!!!!
Getting a raise is not slander...

[Michael Phelps]

by posting who is preaching for us might be damaging other pastors churches that are trying out.

Please think about what you are doing YOUR not HELPING the situation.

By doing this you make it uncomfortable for future people to try out.

I mean if you were looking for another job would you want your boss to know,no you wouldn't they would probably fire you before you got a job. leave well enough alone.


And I am not hiding my profile this is A P #tired of it ALL on this SITE!!

I understand what you're saying, and in a perfect world, this might work.....but if you're trying out for THIS church, there is NO way that the church you currently pastor will not find out about it.

It's best to be honest with your congregation and let them know up front, in my opinion.........

[Cindy]

If it is announced publicly in the church, it becomes public knowledge. Therefore no privacy is violated, usually.

[Barb]

If it is announced publicly in the church, it becomes public knowledge. Therefore no privacy is violated, usually.

Exactly. Where you have people involved, there is no assurance of privacy...someone tells their best bud, spouse, or inadvertently lets something slip in conversation.

THEREFORE, if you tell it, take the responsibility and quit your whining.

And while I am ranting, I am SO weary of folks who rip AFF apart for this thread.

Look...this thread is NO different than 2 preachers discussing this subject over coffee at Denny's. Just because this is the World Wide Web and that is an intimate setting does not separate the fact that it is being discussed.

It is a big thing to many because of the popularity of the former pastor, so get over it...it's going to be talked about, if not here, in other venues.

Sure, if it were my church and my pastor who had left his right spiritual mind, yes, I might not like it talked about here.

But such is the life of the internet. There have been forums and blogs since the beginning of cyberspace, so let's get a grip and get over it.

My church home has been mentioned on this very forum, and not one time did I say that it not be talked about...my beef was with those who misspoke the facts.

SO, if facts as stated are inaccurate, enlighten and set the record straight, but take a chill pill.

The admins have been on top of this thread and will close it, as they did last night, when they feel the need.

There...I'm done!

[navygoat1998]

Exactly. Where you have people involved, there is no assurance of privacy...someone tells their best bud, spouse, or inadvertently lets something slip in conversation.

THEREFORE, if you tell it, take the responsibility and quit your whining.

And while I am ranting, I am SO weary of folks who rip AFF apart for this thread.

Look...this thread is NO different than 2 preachers discussing this subject over coffee at Denny's. Just because this is the World Wide Web and that is an intimate setting does not separate the fact that it is being discussed.

It is a big thing to many because of the popularity of the former pastor, so get over it...it's going to be talked about, if not here, in other venues.

Sure, if it were my church and my pastor who had left his right spiritual mind, yes, I might not like it talked about here.

But such is the life of the internet. There have been forums and blogs since the beginning of cyberspace, so let's get a grip and get over it.

My church home has been mentioned on this very forum, and not one time did I say that it not be talked about...my beef was with those who misspoke the facts.

SO, if facts as stated are inaccurate, enlighten and set the record straight, but take a chill pill.

The admins have been on top of this thread and will close it, as they did last night, when they feel the need.

There...I'm done!

Barb I like Denny's coffee in the thick grey mugs. :happydance

[Barb]

Barb I like Denny's coffee in the thick grey mugs. :happydance

:heeheehee

[Timmy]

Wake me when it gets to 1/2 million views. :heeheehee

[Esaias]

by posting who is preaching for us might be damaging other pastors churches that are trying out.


I mean if you were looking for another job would you want your boss to know,no you wouldn't they would probably fire you before you got a job. leave well enough alone.




Since when is being an elder in a church and having the oversight thereof 'a job' like other jobs?

Oh, wait... never mind!

[Barb]

Since when is being an elder in a church and having the oversight thereof 'a job' like other jobs?

Oh, wait... never mind!

Oh I know...there is so much secrecy among elders. And a calling is a 'job'? Seems to me, when it becomes just a 'job', it's time to give it up.

[RandyWayne]

Since when is being an elder in a church and having the oversight thereof 'a job' like other jobs?

Oh, wait... never mind!

Ya, my current job does not know I am looking for other work, but then again my job doesn't involve instructing saints and winning souls. It's just a paycheck to me. Nothing else.

[Cindy]

Exactly. Where you have people involved, there is no assurance of privacy...someone tells their best bud, spouse, or inadvertently lets something slip in conversation.

THEREFORE, if you tell it, take the responsibility and quit your whining.

And while I am ranting, I am SO weary of folks who rip AFF apart for this thread.

Look...this thread is NO different than 2 preachers discussing this subject over coffee at Denny's. Just because this is the World Wide Web and that is an intimate setting does not separate the fact that it is being discussed.

It is a big thing to many because of the popularity of the former pastor, so get over it...it's going to be talked about, if not here, in other venues.

Sure, if it were my church and my pastor who had left his right spiritual mind, yes, I might not like it talked about here.

But such is the life of the internet. There have been forums and blogs since the beginning of cyberspace, so let's get a grip and get over it.

My church home has been mentioned on this very forum, and not one time did I say that it not be talked about...my beef was with those who misspoke the facts.

SO, if facts as stated are inaccurate, enlighten and set the record straight, but take a chill pill.

The admins have been on top of this thread and will close it, as they did last night, when they feel the need.

There...I'm done!

Yes, I didn't feel well last night and I did not want to be unkind to anyone. I have not hidden the fact that I detest how this thread started. However, there is now, and will be cover ups of this kind of thing. And when they are exposed innocent people suffer. For that I do apologize to the poster, but the problem did not start on AFF.

[Barb]

Yes, I didn't feel well last night and I did not want to be unkind to anyone. I have not hidden the fact that I detest how this thread started. However, there is now, and will be cover ups of this kind of thing. And when they are exposed innocent people suffer. For that I do apologize to the poster, but the problem did not start on AFF.

True that...the problem starts here...

Jeremiah 17:9, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

"Sin is sin, no matter who it's in" is what my saintly grandma used to say.

When someone sins, regardless of their title or position, they will do one of two things...find a place of repentance or devise a scheme to cover their tracks.

That is a personal matter that takes you and me out of the equation. However, if they choose the latter road, it is news, whether my house or the White House.

When one sows sin and deceit, one must reap the harvest that follows. Sounds cold, doesn't it? Don't mean to seem callous about it because I am certainly not.

But I speak from experience as one who ashamedly bears the mark of having been a backslider...reaping is never easy.

[rgcraig]

Will there be a vote for a new pastor next week?

[CC1]

Will there be a vote for a new pastor next week?

Perhaps a vote on whether to have a vote?:icecream

[RandyWayne]

Perhaps a vote on whether to have a vote?:icecream

Niles: "Yes! Yes! One MUST follow proper parliamentary procedures!"

Frasier: "Indeed!"

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/517/Frasier_and_NIles1.jpg

[rgcraig]

Rev. Bill and Stephany Parkey have been chosen as the new pastor.

[houston]

Rev. Bill and Stephany Parkey have been chosen as the new pastor.

From Tulare to wherever to Memphis... Cool!

[CC1]

Rev. Bill and Stephany Parkey have been chosen as the new pastor.

Found a clip on Youtube to introduce folks to the new pastor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StPQPckWNEo

[houston]

:foottapFound a clip on Youtube to introduce folks to the new pastor.

:foottap

[deacon blues]

Congratulations to TPC. I hope and pray for their blessing and forward progress.

[Steve Epley]

Congrats. I wonder if he is related to W. C. Parkey from Popular Bluff?

[Steve Epley]

I found out this is indeed Elder W. C. Parkey's son.

[rgcraig]

I found out this is indeed Elder W. C. Parkey's son.

Yes, he is. Sorry, I wasn't here to see your question.

[Timmy]

Aw, man, now we'll never get to a million views. :sad

[Cindy]

We can now close this thread permanently, maybe.

[navygoat1998]

We can now close this thread permanently, maybe.

:icecream

[Cindy]

:icecream

:girlytantrum

[CC1]

I found out this is indeed Elder W. C. Parkey's son.

I was wondering the same thing. That is a name I heard a lot growing up in the UPC in the 60's and 70's.

[rgcraig]

I was wondering the same thing. That is a name I heard a lot growing up in the UPC in the 60's and 70's.

This might jog your memory a bit:

In December of 1963, Brother Parkey resigned his church to become the Promotional Director of the Harvestime Broadcast at the UnitedPentecostalChurch headquarters, at 2645 South Grand in St. Louis, MO.

During this year, he not only traveled . promoting Harvestime, He was the editor for the periodical "Harvest-Home". At this time He also was serving as the editor of the Youth Magazine, "The Conqueror's TREAD!". In 1964 he became pastor at The First Pentecostal Church of Kansas City, MO where He served for 10 years. At this same time He was the editor of The Missouri District publication, The Missouri District VOICE!

In 1967, the Missouri District voted to have a BibleSchool. The name, "Gateway College of Evangelism" was chosen, and W. C. Parkey was asked to be the president and until 1970. During this time he was asked to serve both on the Curriculum Committee and the Board of Publication of the UnitedPentecostalChurch. He also served on the Campus Evangelism committee.

Then in 1974, Brother Parkey was asked once again to return as the president of GatewayCollege. By this time, it was obvious that in order to guide the school efficiently and effectively it could no longer be a part-time job, so, reluctantly, Brother Parkey resigned as pastor to become the President of Gateway College.

In his second term as President, a high school and distance learning program were added. Gateway sponsored a trip to the Holy Land during this time and a publication, called "The Panorama," was instituted with W. C. Parkey as the editor.

In 1980 He became the pastor at First United Pentecostal Church of Poplar
Bluff, MO. A new Church building was built and in 1983 Cornerstone Tabernacle was dedicated.

[Titus2woman]

Holy Smokes... 136 pages??? Anyone willing to give me a brief synopsis of what this thread is about in a paragraph or two or three? I'd love to read this thread but I have this terribly thick book on advanced concepts in chemistry that I think would take about the same amount of time.

[Steve Epley]

This might jog your memory a bit:

In December of 1963, Brother Parkey resigned his church to become the Promotional Director of the Harvestime Broadcast at the UnitedPentecostalChurch headquarters, at 2645 South Grand in St. Louis, MO.

During this year, he not only traveled . promoting Harvestime, He was the editor for the periodical "Harvest-Home". At this time He also was serving as the editor of the Youth Magazine, "The Conqueror's TREAD!". In 1964 he became pastor at The First Pentecostal Church of Kansas City, MO where He served for 10 years. At this same time He was the editor of The Missouri District publication, The Missouri District VOICE!

In 1967, the Missouri District voted to have a BibleSchool. The name, "Gateway College of Evangelism" was chosen, and W. C. Parkey was asked to be the president and until 1970. During this time he was asked to serve both on the Curriculum Committee and the Board of Publication of the UnitedPentecostalChurch. He also served on the Campus Evangelism committee.

Then in 1974, Brother Parkey was asked once again to return as the president of GatewayCollege. By this time, it was obvious that in order to guide the school efficiently and effectively it could no longer be a part-time job, so, reluctantly, Brother Parkey resigned as pastor to become the President of Gateway College.

In his second term as President, a high school and distance learning program were added. Gateway sponsored a trip to the Holy Land during this time and a publication, called "The Panorama," was instituted with W. C. Parkey as the editor.

In 1980 He became the pastor at First United Pentecostal Church of Poplar
Bluff, MO. A new Church building was built and in 1983 Cornerstone Tabernacle was dedicated.

Elder Parkey when I knew him was a straight shooter.

[seekerman]

Holy Smokes... 136 pages??? Anyone willing to give me a brief synopsis of what this thread is about in a paragraph or two or three? I'd love to read this thread but I have this terribly thick book on advanced concepts in chemistry that I think would take about the same amount of time.

I'm seeing 270+ pages.....260,000+ views.

I can give you a brief summary in a sentence. Good individuals who believed the Romanist teaching that the church is a building, exalt a man to unscriptural level of power and obedience and buy into the teaching that their particular sect represents the true Church of Jesus Christ were taken advantage of because of their ignorance.

[Titus2woman]

I'm seeing 270+ pages.....260,000+ views.

I can give you a brief summary in a sentence. Good individuals who believed the Romanist teaching that the church is a building, exalt a man to unscriptural level of power and obedience and buy into the teaching that their particular sect represents the true Church of Jesus Christ were taken advantage of because of their ignorance.

I have it set to max posts per page.

Really? All this typeface about that? That goes on around here all the time.

[seekerman]

I have it set to max posts per page.

Really? All this typeface about that? That goes on around here all the time.

I think this must be some sort of record though.

[CC1]

This might jog your memory a bit:

In December of 1963, Brother Parkey resigned his church to become the Promotional Director of the Harvestime Broadcast at the UnitedPentecostalChurch headquarters, at 2645 South Grand in St. Louis, MO.

During this year, he not only traveled . promoting Harvestime, He was the editor for the periodical "Harvest-Home". At this time He also was serving as the editor of the Youth Magazine, "The Conqueror's TREAD!". In 1964 he became pastor at The First Pentecostal Church of Kansas City, MO where He served for 10 years. At this same time He was the editor of The Missouri District publication, The Missouri District VOICE!

In 1967, the Missouri District voted to have a BibleSchool. The name, "Gateway College of Evangelism" was chosen, and W. C. Parkey was asked to be the president and until 1970. During this time he was asked to serve both on the Curriculum Committee and the Board of Publication of the UnitedPentecostalChurch. He also served on the Campus Evangelism committee.

Then in 1974, Brother Parkey was asked once again to return as the president of GatewayCollege. By this time, it was obvious that in order to guide the school efficiently and effectively it could no longer be a part-time job, so, reluctantly, Brother Parkey resigned as pastor to become the President of Gateway College.

In his second term as President, a high school and distance learning program were added. Gateway sponsored a trip to the Holy Land during this time and a publication, called "The Panorama," was instituted with W. C. Parkey as the editor.

In 1980 He became the pastor at First United Pentecostal Church of Poplar
Bluff, MO. A new Church building was built and in 1983 Cornerstone Tabernacle was dedicated.

Yup, I remember now!

[tbone2D1]

Terry Black's mother used to babysit me when I was in the 3-5 yr old ages. Terry and I used to make mudpies, and his Dad used to have pony rides at the church at 40th Harrison in Kansas City from time to time on Sunday mornings. One time the pony was carrying about three or four of us kids and we all fell off, and there we were three or four little kiddies squalling for our mommies! My family soon left the 40th and Harrison church to go to a little storefront church, and I lost touch with Terry until I was fourteen and going to a UPC youth camp in Rolla Mo. Lanny Wolfe was the music director at that camp, and I played trombone in his little band he had going there that week. Terry didn't talk to me much, and looking back on it, I think he was unhappy with the role he was forced to play as a PK. Fortunately for me I didn't have those stresses. I've pretty much lived my life quietly and under the radar screen. I'm still involved in my little church. Play the keyboard, guitar, mandolin, and some trombone during worship services. I'm also involved as an "Urban Farmer" in our little community garden we've got going.

[LongBeachCA]

Since the NEW PASTOR has been voted in after T.B. was forced to resign they have now FIRED B.E. who was the MUSIC MINSTER that was hired under T.B. I was there the first day the new pastor has his first service as pastor. I told my best friend who was sitting beside me that B.E. will be fired and i told him why and who would take over the music. I felt it in the air. The new Pastors wife will be in that position. There was no reason given for B.E. being fired. He had done nothing wrong and spent his life in service to this church and was married in this church. His Dad was there when N.P.U was the pastor before T.B. His Dad was the Music Minister back in the day when it was known as WHITE-HAVEN UPC. After T.B came and was voted in around 1986 they changed the NAME to TPC MEMPHIS and moved to a new Location and built a multi million dollar CHURCH with a House on the property with a large built in swimming pool. It was a MASSIVE STEP up from where we were when I was in the high school. Our Church was big but TPC was GIANT and HUGE compared to WUPC. This church has been thru 2 PASTORS doing the same thing. The only difference the 1st Pastor N.P.U. got to keep his license and was sent to another church. If his name was JONES he would be out there with T.B. with no UPCI license. CHURCH politics. N.P.U. 's father who was the BISHOP at the Time over the UPCI came to town to beg the church not to do this to his son. He begged and begged but the church was not having it. They threw him out. He lived high on the HOG Cadillacs , big house, MAIDS. They T.B. comes along and every one thought he was really something. I was even told once after I was gone for a while and came back that T.B. drove a broke down raggedy car, and they didn't live in a big fancy house. I was like well you must not get invited to the house parties. This was a few years just before they kicked T.B to the CURB. After this was all over with the church is trying to SUE T.B. in court to try and get back all the LUXURY CARS SUV's from BMW's to ESCALDES that he was buying for his kids and grandkids with church money. It was told that he took a $300,000 salary and that his kids and their spouses all got salaries, it was told they took $100,000 each. People don't believe that this could be but if you were to see over the years how he told the people to GIVE GIVE GIVE MORE MORE MORE because GOD wanted TPC to BUILD a NEW BUILDING on new PROPERTY and it never happened. T.B. was saving that Money in the bank for a RAINY DAY and that RAINY day came. He even had his son on Payroll getting $100,000 and a LUXURY CAR i believe he got the BMW and he didn't even had a JOB at the CHURCH.

Also if anyone wants to go and look at The 1st pastors website, N.P.U. and read his BIO he flat out lies saying he started a church in SOUTH HAVEN MS. That is just across the Border of MS & TN. He does not want anyone to connect him with TPC formerly known as HIS Church WHITE HAVEN UPC. I am not sure why they allowed N.P.U to keep his license and just move on to another CHURCH but the only answer is CHURCH POLITICS. If his name had been jones he would be with T.B. out there with NO UPCI LICENSE. But because N.P.U dad was the BISHOP they couldn't touch him. And both PASTORS were caught doing the exact same thing. ONLY the 1st PASTOR was CAUGHT RED HANDED at his HOUSE while CHURCH SERVICE WAS GOING on durning the SINGING and the CHOIR he would EXIT with the secretary and they would leave and go to the Pastors home and then he was back just in time to PREACH. The deacons was following him for a long time and they recorded the events. It's sad to me the CHURCH POLITICS that are always in play. T.B. was not even caught red handed. they only found a FILE on his computer by a TECHNICIAN. which to me that could have been planted there. They actually caught the 1st pastor red handed and he is still preaching in the UPCI sitting up on the plat form at CAMPs and THE BIG GENERAL CONFERENCE. I don't know how N.P.U. can PREACH to the UPCI. WHILE LYING on his WEBSITE so that no one will connect the dots.

[aegsm76]

You appear to be on a personal crusade against the UPC. I found numerous posts, similar to this in other places on the net.
Some as old as 2013.
There may be more as I didn't look long.

[Evang.Benincasa]

LBC, so may I ask what solace to you find in posting all of this?

[deacon blues]

BREAKING NEWS: Japs Bomb Pearl Harbor!!!

[LongBeachCA]

You did not include TB himself in your list of who left to attend Lighthouse UPC in Jackson. Is TB not attending church with his wife and family?

I travel to Olive Branch every couple of months or so on business so maybe I will be able to visit TB's new church there when it opens. For those not familiar with the geography of the area OB is essentially like a suburb of Memphis. So as predicted looks like TB is starting a church in his same town although technically he can say it is even in a different state.

Reading your comment takes me back to the FIRST pastor before TB. This was N.P.U. TPC was then called White Haven UPC which was still in Memphis. The 1st pastor NPU who was kicked out of this same church by the some of the same people still there , was able to keep his license and was able to get another church. You can look up his website at a current UPCI church where he is the pastor and he is lying saying he pastored a church in Southaven MS. He doesn't even say it correctly thats how wrong he is , he calls it SOUTH HAVEN 2 words when it's one word. It just makes me angry that Pastors thinks that people forget their bad. He just doesn't want people to connect the DOTS that has the 1st pastor of TPC formley known as whitehaven UPC. This church, was my home church and i went to school there. NPU was my pastor and etymology teacher and he screwed up this church the first time. Then they elected TB to come in and fix up what N.P.U. messed up only to Mess them up some more. And Yes i was a member there for all these years. It also makes me angry when people in here on this site act like no one can say anything about the situation but them. Or if you say to much you are a Gossiper and a trouble maker. But then you see those very people running their Mouths.

[LongBeachCA]

You appear to be on a personal crusade against the UPC. I found numerous posts, similar to this in other places on the net.
Some as old as 2013.
There may be more as I didn't look long.
And your Point is?

[LongBeachCA]

People forget Bro. Trimble was Asst. for a while - not a family member.
BRO TRIMBLE was Family. He was his 1st Cousin.

[LongBeachCA]

I'd like to add that the son in law that is/was the evangelism/outreach Pastor was so before he married TB's daughter.

But he was previously married and his ex wife is still alive and she did not cheat on him either. So therefore he had no right to divorce her and marry TB daughter. But the Church all went with it because TB said it was ok. I know her personally and I have talked with her on the phone. I went to church with her long before he married her. This marriage of this guy to TB daughter did upset a lot of people. But they got over it. He had no grounds for DIVORCE according to scripture. He just wanted to be in TB family. And so they started seeing each other. She is also family to the Music Minister TPC just fired.

[LongBeachCA]

So bigger the sins the more a person should keep their position?

Point being I don't think using kings of OT as a model for if a minister today should remain in position after adultery is wise. Both kings sinned one rejected and one remained so which do we go by?

This sounds really STUPID if anyone thinks he should be RESTORED to ministry. So he cheats with a WOMAN some think he should be RESTORED to ministry but i question those who think that, what if he cheated with a MAN? Or a MINOR of either Sex then what SAY YOU?



BTW to everyone that is going to QUESTION me being on some kind of CRUSADE against the UPCI , I am just now getting around to reading the post. I had to stop reading stuff after I posted a few things. So i am playing catch up and some of the post i feel like responding to. I see that many of you here are putting in 10's and 100's of comments throughout this whole ordeal. So today i am reading post from Day one and feeling like answering some of them. I have just as much of a right as anyone else here. My post are not spread out like everyone else, Because i am answering them now , today. SO WHAT?

[LongBeachCA]

It's a terrible comparison. David was king. Pastors are not kings. They are not even supposed to act like kings

But a LOT OF them INCLUDING T.B. are living like KINGS and their FAMILIES are living like kings.

[LongBeachCA]

Amen, God will recover the church as everyone remain calm in their spirits, and be very prayerful. This is a very critical period for TPC cause satan is desiring to level the church to total ruin, but this will NOT happen: "the gate of hell shall not prevail". Our Pastor brother will recover with the help of the Lord, and his wife will also be strengthened of the Lord. The church leaders has to be very watchful that wolves are detected, and not allowed in. "I will lift mine eyes to the hills; all of my help cometh from the Lord". PRAY!!! PRAY!!! TPC-PRAY!!! Embrace one another in Agape' love.


Ok you just said that the church leaders has to be very watchful that the wolves are detected and not allowed in. What did you mean by this exactly ? This happen to us in 1986 when this church was WUPC under N.P.U. The leaders let another WOLF in his name was T.B. I don't get it.

[LongBeachCA]

You said this so very well. It scares me that we, the Apostolic Church, have created this money driven ministry. Aside from all the shouting, isle running, and talking in tongues, its hard not to deny this is a big money game. I'm embarressed.

This is BERNIE MAYDOLF all over again. Wall Street Crooks dressed up as Pastors and Bishops pretending to be from GOD and that they speak for GOD.

[LongBeachCA]

I think this thread needs to stop. The allegations are true. He has stepped down. The church is now in a healing process. End of story. The rest is under the blood of Jesus, and between Bro. Black, his family, and God. No one should be speculating or discussing it, he was wrong, he knows he was, and the proper measures were taken when it came to light. TPC is strong, the people are strong and know what to do when the devil comes against us. We came together and sought the face of God. HE dealt with this situation.

So why are you able to get on here and read and then TALK ABOUT IT?????

[LongBeachCA]

Really? Please don't make a mockery of the work of Christ on the cross. Has Terry Black asked the church for forgiveness? Has he even turned in his license to the UPC?

Until this happens, it is most definitely NOT under the blood.

God did not deal with this situation. Someone with access to details previously hidden did. It would have never come to light otherwise and he would have continued in gross immorality for another 15 years, all while preaching about the evils of Charismatics.

Not to mention he would have been putting that $300k Salary each of those 15 more years in the bank put that in your calculator. WOW. This family knew what they were doing. They were all in the Money Jar together. It was a FACT that the church was UPSET when his daughter married a MAN who later became his ASST PASTOR , this guy was already married and divorced his wife with out cause. Just because he fell in love with TB daughter. I know her personally and she was crushed by this divorce. And TB married them. And told him to get a divorce from his current wife so he could marry his daughter. This family was in this DEEP This was way back to in like 2005 about the DIVORCE and REMARRY into the Black Family. They set this all up and good. They had a Business Plan and it worked until TB got caught. It makes me wonder WHY TOM TRIMBLE his own COUSIN LEFT TPC ........When he did and gave up his position as ASST PASTOR. This family was SUCKING $$$$$ out of this CHURCH like it was a LOTTO TICKET they had won and started buying up BMW'S and ESCALADES and giving Slaries to one of his young son who was not even WORKING AT THE CHURCH but was getting $100k Salary and the BMW. His wife got a Salary of $100,000. Each of his Kids and their Spouse also took $100,000- salaries. Imagine his daughter and Son in law were married one family that is $200k for their House Hold. They ROBBED THIS CHURCH like a THEIF ROBBING A BANK IN A HEIST. This church was HIT with a HEIST by a Master Thief. The Criminal always makes a mistake and leaves behind evidence that always gets them caught in the end.

[LongBeachCA]

So are you saying that you have the authority to say if Terry Black has repented, his sins are not under the blood? No one is saying Bro. Black will not come before the church and ask for forgiveness and admit that he did wrong. It has only been a week since he stepped down. I, as a member, hope that he does, to help the healing process. All those other things you are putting on here are hearsay. How do YOU think you know about them anyway? He has not publicly confessed, to my knowledge, so anything people are hearing, unless you are close to the original source that found the evidence, you wouldn't know. And if you are that close to the person, that person is Godly enough to not want you airing that information on a public forum. If "that person" wanted the world to know all the details, "that person" would have told everyone when the evidence was initially found. This issue was not taken lightly. The people that confronted Bro. Black did so prayerfully and in a wise way. If you knew these people, which you obviously don't know firsthand, they were letting God handle it. God knows all. He knew when this was going to come to light and orchestrated it being found and being dealt with. So saying that God didn't deal with this situation shows just how much you know about the Bible obviously. God would not have let him continue, He had His hand in this.

Answer this? Why did GOD being BLACK to this church in the FIRST PLACE after they just suffered this same thing with the 1st pastor? N.P.U. did this very thing and bro black was voted in to clean up the mess. Boy this shows how much you really know about the situation just because you go there, you must not have been there before TB was voted in or you would know this much. This isn't TPC 1st RODEO with a PASTOR that has went astray and committed adultery ....... I love how people get on here and tell others what they should be saying and not saying, why are you here reading and responding if you don't believe the people in here are doing right by Talking about this subject?

[LongBeachCA]

Yeah, also there's a pattern with Muslims, so therefore keep an eye on them because they may secretly be wanting to kill you and your family. Oh, but watch out for the Catholic Priest he may be wanting to molest your kids, and the Jewish Rabbi is looking to scam you out of money. Again, people have bad experiences, and after those experiences they look at a group, and everyone who even resembles that group is blacklisted.

Getting old.




So that's where we've come to?

Jesus is reduced to being just a band-aid on a bleeding bullet wound?

Incapable of really converting, but only freshly masking Jason Voorhees.

Swell. :highfive

What you are saying is: THIS is a FORM OR RELIGIOUS PROFILING?

[LongBeachCA]

Do we no longer believe that abusers, thieves and murderers should pay for their sins? Have we gone so far over the "love and mercy" cliff that we have abandoned the concepts of justice and restitution?

Restitution is a Bible doctrine. It is not wrong or unmerciful to desire an apology and/or vindication.

God Himself does not pardon the unrepentant.

Christians shouldn't either.

I believe I was a part of this conversation to see your comment. I thank you for saying what you have said. this is so important for us to learn. The church sweeps things under the rug and it's only to protect their NAME. With no thought of the person who was abused. Telling them how to get over something they never experience or went thru. How could they know how to tell someone how or when to get over an experience of abuse? They could not.

Again i thank you for this powerful statement.

[LongBeachCA]

is it possible that being so obsessed about keeping women under wraps makes the forbidden fruit all so more desirable.

and apparently men are insatiable? David had how many wives and concubines when he commanded Bathseba to bed him?

The most beautiful actresses in the world have husbands that cheat on them.

So, it doesn't matter how much women cover/don't cover themselves, whether you live in a Muslim or western society, how many women you are permitted to marry, what religion you are, whether you speak with the tongues or men or of angels, men are susceptible to adultery, rape, incest, child molesting, human trafficking, ect ect.

So yeah, righteous Lot throws his daughters out to the men of sodem to be raped, concubines are raped and cut to pieces and used to rally tribes for war. Preachers with impeccable holiness standards commit adultery and rape their own daughters.

Oh, we thought it was safe behind these walls, but no, we are sleeping with the enemy.

Great comment but one thing i don't get, LOT said the MEN of the CITY wanted the ANGELS, so he throws out his DAUGHTERS to be Raped? WHY WOULD ANY GAY MAN want to RAPE a GIRL? This story doesn't Hold up. It's very contradicting story that doesn't hold water.
All your other remarks i get.

[LongBeachCA]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I tend to believe that if it was years and years of affairs that women would be coming out about it and not staying silent. Who knows there may be some truth to some of the things that it is buried beneath the lies of some very angry people that were obviously at that church... But this sure sounds like a witchhunt to me.

All my point is is that I would be very careful and choose my words wisely... Because some people on this forum are walking very closely to the line of the seven things that the Scripture talks about that God hates...regardless of the truth of the matter.

Remember- no matter what happened. We are all sinners- we all fall- how can we judge who sin is worse? And if any of it is true thank God we serve a God of mercy, restoration and love!

here they are, Are you sure you are not doing one of these yourself? You are here reading and stating things you know........

1. Haughty eyes (or a proud look)

Rolling the eyes in response to something said to them,
Looking down on someone younger, different, or less intelligent
Setting themselves up as the judge of others
Thinking they are wiser than their parents and other elders
Criticizing parents and other authorities
Arguing with parents
Disobeying and openly rebelling against authorities
Ingratitude
Boasting about one’s accomplishments, status, or knowledge
Disrespect
“For God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time” (1 Peter 5:5-6).

2. A lying tongue

Not telling the truth about a wrongdoing
Withholding information that others need to have
Hypocritical words
Flattering to gain something from someone
Exaggerating the facts
Implying that something is true, or purposely leading someone to an incorrect assumption
Telling partial truths
Not honoring parents’ rules when they are absent
Not offering evidence against a wrongdoer when necessary
Committing to doing something with no real intention of following through
Making excuses
Blaming others for own sinful actions
“Lying lips are abomination to the Lord: but they that deal truly are his delight” (Proverbs 12:22).

3. Hands that shed innocent blood (Although children may not murder someone, they will exhibit anger, indifference, and other emotions that drive them to physically harm others.)

Bullying
Hitting, biting, kicking, hurting others
Striking parents
Carelessly abusing or killing animals for amusement (such as shooting little birds with a BB gun)
“He that followeth after righteousness and mercy findeth life, righteousness, and honour” (Proverbs 21:21).

4. A heart that devises wicked plans

Plotting revenge
Snubbing someone
Conspiring to deceive or hurt someone
Lying about a long series of actions in order to cover sin
“Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good” (Romans 12:21).

5. Feet that make haste to run to evil

Joining with others to do wrong when the authority is not present
Delighting in doing wrong
“Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it” (Psalm 34:14).


6. A false witness who breathes out lies

Falsely accusing someone of misbehavior and sin
Misrepresenting a disagreement between people
Falsely describing the actions of another person in a way that implies his guilt
Not offering evidence against someone when asked to give testimony
Covering for someone who has committed a wrongdoing
“Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: so shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man” (Proverbs 3:3-5).

7. One who sows discord among brothers

Teasing
Listening to gossip and repeating gossip
Slandering, repeating truths that will harm another person’s reputation
Leading others to imagine the worst about someone
Stirring up disagreements and jealousies
Arousing suspicions against someone
Meddling in the disagreements of others
Taking sides in disagreements
Envying the success and blessing of others

[LongBeachCA]

Oh, don't be so sure...I know a lot more than one would presume.

If you did you would not be here speculating ......Were you a member of TPC?

[Evang.Benincasa]

What you are saying is: THIS is a FORM OR RELIGIOUS PROFILING?

A form?

A form of what?

[Evang.Benincasa]

This is BERNIE MAYDOLF all over again. Wall Street Crooks dressed up as Pastors and Bishops pretending to be from GOD and that they speak for GOD.

Do you mean BERNIE MADOFF?

Are you upset about something?

[Evang.Benincasa]

So why are you able to get on here and read and then TALK ABOUT IT?????

Because people love blood, and that is the reason they drive real slow when passing a bad accident?

LBC?

Do you still attend a Apostolic Pentecostal Church?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Not to mention he would have been putting that $300k Salary each of those 15 more years in the bank put that in your calculator. WOW. This family knew what they were doing. They were all in the Money Jar together. It was a FACT that the church was UPSET when his daughter married a MAN who later became his ASST PASTOR , this guy was already married and divorced his wife with out cause. Just because he fell in love with TB daughter. I know her personally and she was crushed by this divorce. And TB married them. And told him to get a divorce from his current wife so he could marry his daughter. This family was in this DEEP This was way back to in like 2005 about the DIVORCE and REMARRY into the Black Family. They set this all up and good. They had a Business Plan and it worked until TB got caught. It makes me wonder WHY TOM TRIMBLE his own COUSIN LEFT TPC ........When he did and gave up his position as ASST PASTOR. This family was SUCKING $$$$$ out of this CHURCH like it was a LOTTO TICKET they had won and started buying up BMW'S and ESCALADES and giving Slaries to one of his young son who was not even WORKING AT THE CHURCH but was getting $100k Salary and the BMW. His wife got a Salary of $100,000. Each of his Kids and their Spouse also took $100,000- salaries. Imagine his daughter and Son in law were married one family that is $200k for their House Hold. They ROBBED THIS CHURCH like a THEIF ROBBING A BANK IN A HEIST. This church was HIT with a HEIST by a Master Thief. The Criminal always makes a mistake and leaves behind evidence that always gets them caught in the end.

LBC?

I think you might want to peruse the site I just posted below.

I don't know these individuals you are currently roasting over some warm Christian barberism. But you might want to just go over the website before you proceed any further. It is one thing when you are going back and forth with another member of this forum. Because they are here to defend themselves, but you are just having so much joyful glee ripping the wings off these people and they aren't even here. :)

https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/defamation

[Evang.Benincasa]

Answer this? Why did GOD being BLACK

God is black?

[LongBeachCA]

Why is there so much talking going on about this issue. It's honestly NOBODY business. This forum is a form of gossip. It truly is, and I'm sorry if I seem harsh. But none of yall know the down right honest truth. Seriously. This is not the first time something bad happened to a church in the congregation. So stop judging a man. The church is hurting and this forum doesn't help it. Instead of discussing what has happened go pray about it.

But you are Here reading everything and commenting so you are just as guilty as the rest. IF you Reading Gossip you are being a part of the talk. it is ONE IN THE SAME. You are now apart of GOSSIP so get over it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

But you are Here reading everything and commenting so you are just as guilty as the rest. IF you Reading Gossip and spreading it is ONE IN THE SAME. You are now apart of GOSSIP so get over it.

Read their post again, they are asking posters to stop posting about the subject.

Big difference between reading a thread, joining the gossip, and complaining about the gossip that it should stop.

[Evang.Benincasa]

LBC, I see you deleted your last post giving me an explanation?

Why?

[LongBeachCA]

A form?

A form of what?

I meant to type A Form Of RELIGIOUS PROFILING

[LongBeachCA]

Answer this? Why did GOD BRING TB to this church in the FIRST PLACE after they just suffered this same thing with the 1st pastor? N.P.U. did this very thing and TB was voted in to clean up the mess. Boy this shows how much you really know about the situation just because you go there, you must not have been there before TB was voted in or you would know this much. This isn't TPC 1st RODEO with a PASTOR that has went astray and committed adultery ....... I love how people get on here and tell others what they should be saying and not saying, why are you here reading and responding if you don't believe the people in here are doing right by Talking about this subject?

I had a typo. why did god bring T.B. to a church where the same issue was happening with the pastor before him. that was my point. sorry for the TYPO.

[Evang.Benincasa]

LBC, I see you deleted your last post giving me an explanation?

Why?


:bump

[Evang.Benincasa]

I had a typo. why did god bring T.B. to a church where the same issue was happening with the pastor before him. that was my point. sorry for the TYPO.

So, what you are doing here, how does this help us?

[Ferd]

I thought gossip was a sin?

Where in all this is an attempt by the spiritual to restore those that have fallen?

are we supposed to see geebuS in longbeach?

[Steve Epley]

Ministerial failures are horrid not only personally but all that are affected by it. To keep hashing it only helps to keep the hurt alive. By the way I think immorality disqualifies a preacher from the ministry so I am not defending either of these men. I feel for that local church and families of those preachers whom they betrayed and scared them for the rest of their lives. Just a thought.

[deacon blues]

Been working all day---did I miss anything on AFF???

[CC1]

Somebody pulling back up this old thread reminded me to go check out the Terry Black Ministries website to see what he is up to these days. Was surprised to see a new website with only his blog on it. Rather ironic that the name of his blog is "Steppin Out".

Looks like he is resuming an old blog he started years ago. The current post is dated 5/2/16 and is the part 2 of a subject and the previous post, part1, is dated 4/30/12. Only a little over four years between posts!

http://terryblackministries.com/index.html