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forced2view
01-10-2013, 05:03 PM
My heart bleeds for you and your family. The enemy will do his bidding. As I have gotten older and more experienced I have come to believe that it will truly be a miracle if any of us make it. We are all so fallible. The world around us is falling to pieces. Just look at America and the situation she finds herself in at this time. Corruption at all levels of our government. I actually heard today of a father that was selling his 17 year old daughter in prostitution to support his drug habit.
And that is just one example of the pure evil this world faces. We all must rise to the challenges that will soon befall us. The Bible tells us that in the lasts days will be perilous times. The enemy is truly licking his chops. Whether you are a Pastor or pew dweller the enemy cares not. But when he brings a Pastor down there is always collateral damage. Truly heartbreaking.
Thank you for your kind words! And only because we have been through a similar situation can I say that my heart truly bleeds for you as well and you and the church there are in our prayers! I met TB when I was a teenager when he held a revival in my Grandfather's church. I have always admired his family and ministry.
One of the things that I find a little ironic is, that during the time we were going through this deal, my husband and I found real spiritual strength and helo online where a church streamed their services. It was TPC. Both of us found strength in the worship and messages there. After a while both of us felt like there was something missing, we couldn't put our fingers on it. But we did notice that there were many Sunday services where TB did not minister/preach. It wasn't that there wasn't a move of God, there was. But, he stopped preaching and sometimes for the last 5 or so minutes of the service he would just talk, usually saying that he had a word from the Lord. However, we never suspected this! And it still feels funny that at a time when we were going thru what we were going thru, he was used to help us! God moves in mysterious ways! If he can use a donkey, he can use anything.
BrotherEastman
01-10-2013, 05:05 PM
If everyone at TPC had the "good attitude" described in an earlier post, you would have hundreds of "insiders" with scoops and the truth clamoring to share with the world their interpretation of the facts.
bump
Praxeas
01-10-2013, 05:07 PM
If I was in a church looking for a potential new Pastor, I'd want to know these things
Fiyahstarter
01-10-2013, 05:28 PM
Great post. Thank you for sharing your heart. I think the vast majority of readers and posters on this thread do not "hold one denomination or faith hostage for the actions of one man". There has been criticism of church systems that elevate the pastor to a position with no accountibilty but that is not limited to UPC churches. The point is that pators needs to protect themselves and their churches by having accountibility measures in place.
You stated in your post that you would never again be part of a church without accountibility or one that practiced nepotism. That is exactly what most are talking about on here. Hopefully this thread and posts like yours will make pastors and saints reading take steps to make sure their situation is a correct one and they protected from something like this.
:nod
There are less cowardly and more biblical ways to find out what's going on than by airing dirty laundry on the internet. Who would want to pastor people who feel they have to share their drama with the world?
If I was in a church looking for a potential new Pastor, I'd want to know these things
Fiyahstarter
01-10-2013, 05:36 PM
There are less cowardly and more biblical ways to find out what's going on than by airing dirty laundry on the internet. Who would want to pastor people who feel they have to share their drama with the world?
By the same token, who wants a pastor that cheats, sneaks, and covers things up?
Praxeas
01-10-2013, 05:47 PM
There are less cowardly and more biblical ways to find out what's going on than by airing dirty laundry on the internet. Who would want to pastor people who feel they have to share their drama with the world?
such as?
Who would want a Pastor who believes he can be corrupt and nobody find out?
Cindy
01-10-2013, 05:57 PM
such as?
Who would want a Pastor who believes he can be corrupt and nobody find out?
Ignorance is bliss, or so I have heard.
Cindy
01-10-2013, 05:58 PM
It's like hypocrites posting on the internet, about people posting on the internet about people.
Godzchild
01-10-2013, 06:01 PM
It's like hypocrites posting on the internet, about people posting on the internet about people.
:thumbsup I think that hit a homerun
Godzchild
01-10-2013, 06:02 PM
such as?
Who would want a Pastor who believes he can be corrupt and nobody find out?
obviously...some would! I would not 4 sure~
mizpeh
01-10-2013, 06:11 PM
There are less cowardly and more biblical ways to find out what's going on than by airing dirty laundry on the internet. Who would want to pastor people who feel they have to share their drama with the world?
I thought Insider was writing to set the record straight without throwing out accusations or innuendo. He wrote of the hurt and devastation of some of the loyal saints who had been betrayed with forgiving heart toward TB and a desire to see TB do what is right, repent and find reconcilation with God. And if TB had humbled himself and repented, do you think this would be an issue? Wouldn't love have covered up the offense when repentance is offered?
tv1a, I'd prefer to talk about this type of thing without using names and places to learn from it. I'm sorry that this has happened. Good people are hurt as is God's reputation. But I'm glad Insider has given us a glimpse into the process of healing in his heart and hopefully in the heart of TPC. A better end to the story would have been if TB had repented and made restitution.
AreYouReady?
01-10-2013, 06:31 PM
It's like hypocrites posting on the internet, about people posting on the internet about people.
:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup
Hoovie
01-10-2013, 08:41 PM
Great post. Thank you for sharing your heart. I think the vast majority of readers and posters on this thread do not "hold one denomination or faith hostage for the actions of one man". There has been criticism of church systems that elevate the pastor to a position with no accountability but that is not limited to UPC churches. The point is that pastors needs to protect themselves and their churches by having accountability measures in place.
You stated in your post that you would never again be part of a church without accountability or one that practiced nepotism. That is exactly what most are talking about on here. Hopefully this thread and posts like yours will make pastors and saints reading take steps to make sure their situation is a correct one and they protected from something like this.
And this is THE crux of the matter!
We need to learn from these incidents. As a denomination the UPC has out grown the day of single pastor churches with unquestionable authority, and veto power over all things church related. The question is, are enough people up to the challenge to call for change?
How is that hypocritcal? People feign concern and compassion as an excuse to spread gossip? What about scrubbing a thread so the gossip can continie?
It's like hypocrites posting on the internet, about people posting on the internet about people.
AreYouReady?
01-10-2013, 09:35 PM
And this is THE crux of the matter!
We need to learn from these incidents. As a denomination the UPC has out grown the day of single pastor churches with unquestionable authority, and veto power over all things church related. The question is, are enough people up to the challenge to call for change?
If they do, they will be accused of being in "rebellion"...you know. :rolleyes2
How much of the story do you need to know to "learn"? The Bible is clearly explains how to handle faulty leadership. If this group really cared about the feelings and well being of the hurting saints, this thread would have been closed the first day.
I thought Insider was writing to set the record straight without throwing out accusations or innuendo. He wrote of the hurt and devastation of some of the loyal saints who had been betrayed with forgiving heart toward TB and a desire to see TB do what is right, repent and find reconcilation with God. And if TB had humbled himself and repented, do you think this would be an issue? Wouldn't love have covered up the offense when repentance is offered?
tv1a, I'd prefer to talk about this type of thing without using names and places to learn from it. I'm sorry that this has happened. Good people are hurt as is God's reputation. But I'm glad Insider has given us a glimpse into the process of healing in his heart and hopefully in the heart of TPC. A better end to the story would have been if TB had repented and made restitution.
Tlswift2009
01-10-2013, 10:05 PM
I signed up just to respond to this thread. I am a member of TPC with intimate knowledge of what happened. I am not a board member but I am close fiends with 2 of the 3 original members. I wanted to respond early in the thread but my emotions were all over the place. I am glad I waited. My initial feelings of anger, hurt and shock were overwhelming when I first learned of the evidence that was discovered on the church's servers. TB's initial claim that this evidence was gathered illegally was false. What initially happened was one of the church computers was in need of repair. The repair technician happened to be a church member.
This person came across pictures and correspondences in texts and e-mails from TB's Blackberry and e-mail accounts. This person initially was hesitant to come forward. His accountability partner happened to be his boss. After a few weeks this person felt compelled to tell his accountability partner what he found. He eventually did and they both approached the church board with what they had discovered. The board and their accusers then (as is required by scripture) approached TB. "1 Timothy 5:19-20 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses."
He did not deny it. He asked the board to destroy the evidence. I will not go into details of what occurred next. Suffice it to say he admitted guilt. And the evidence found on the church servers was compelling to say the least. He was caught and was smart enough to know there was no way out. The next church service, after the board meeting with TB, I looked to with pure dread. I expected TB to be repentant. He was not. Instead he went into the now famous 'jackal rant'. I cannot adequately describe the feelings I had after that service. Shock, hurt, anger, just do not suffice.
I expected my pastor to seek forgiveness, to be contrite. Instead he was indignant and actually tried to bully his way through the situation by intimidation of the board members and his accusers. The following days were just terrible and I had a hard time sleeping. I could only think of the betrayal I felt. In the coming days and weeks, through many phone calls to people that were intimately involved (board members), I came to hear of other things besides the pics, texts and e-mails. There were church finances that were mishandled. It was devastating. How could this man that had been my pastor for years, a person I dined with, cried with, counseled with, laughed with, have done the things he was being accused of?
I wanted to think it was not true, but I knew the board members too well. They are upstanding, salt of the earth, godly men that live what they believe in faith and in their actions. I knew their character. One of them, at one time, would have taken a bullet for TB. Loved TB dearly, supported his ministry, loved his family. This man I saw cry over what he actually saw with his own eyes on the church servers. I knew he was telling us the truth. I have read a lot of posts here, not all, but several. It is sad that non-Apostlics have taken this opportunity to trash the UPCI and the Apostolic Movement.
The fact is, all men sin, regardless of faith. Was what TB did wrong? You bet. Should he be held accountable? Absolutely. But to hold one denomination or faith hostage for the actions of one man is foolish and folly. I guess since Peter and David failed we should hold all of Christianity accountable and throw out the Old and New Testaments. It is a silly, pathetic, small-minded person that would do so. Do I believe the message of UPCI. Whole-heartedly. Are we perfect. No. Truth is truth no matter what the situation. Please don't try and bait me into a debate on standards or legalism or the theology of the UPCI.
I won't bite. I'll leave that for others. I will pray for you and with you but I will not debate scripture on a public forum. No one wins. You want to talk one-on-one. Be glad to. But debates on a public forum such a FB or here is not productive and serves no purpose except self aggrandizement. There are those that will chose to not forgive TB for what he did. I am not one of them. I am past the anger stage. My tithes, offering and other monies I gave to TPC were given from my heart to God and his ministry. What TB or others did with that money, he or they, will be accountable to God for.
I did my scriptural duty. I will never forget what TB did and I will never be a part of a church that is family run by one man making all the decisions nor will I be part of a church that openly practices nepotism. Churches should be board driven by Godly men of character in concert with the bishop. We had a board, but it failed us. If you talked with the board members they will tell you they failed our church. But they trusted their pastor explicitly. As Ronald Reagan used to say, "Trust and Verify". This situation is truly pathetic in every way. But if we are to be forgiven we must forgive.
I have forgiven TB. I pray he has or will repent. I cannot say whether or not he has. From all indications it appears he has not and that is truly regrettable. I will not go into or be part of the rumor mill. Usually after these situations all types of non truths and innuendo are spewed by people just being hateful and vindictive. Christians should be forgiving and love the sinner but not the sin. There are souls at stake, and too many have suffered because of this. In the meeting before service, in TB's office, the Sunday of the 'jackal rant' TB made this statement. "Remember, Be Gentle with the Body". Never more truthful or ironic words have been spoken.
Thank you so, so much for the spirit {calm and sincere} in which you shared with us. My heart can feel your pain from this matter, but better yet; your resolve to forgive and move on. I pray for you continued trust in God and ability to follow godly leadership {through wisdom/discernment} as that leadership follow God. Your experience of such a hurtful situation will help many because you have allowed God to healthily help you through this matter. If we would follow God's word as we follow His leadership; we will NEVER go astray, although leadeship sometimes does: KEEP YOUR AFFECTIONS, AND HEART UPON THINGS ABOVE, AND CONTINUE TO ALLOW GOD TO**ORDER**YOUR STEPS. Thank you very much, and I pray that the readers of your post will do so in the spirit of righteousness, and rightness: I see NO reason to debate, or trash what you have shared.
Tlswift2009
01-10-2013, 10:12 PM
WOW.....I am blown away!!!!:nuke I am so glad my family was not there when all this mess blew up. But on a personal level, alot of people seen this starting to unfold years ago. TB was too good to be true and and a BIG let down as a pastor. He KNEW of some things going on in the church and about some people being hateful to one family, and when approached....he never once tried to do anything about it. He allowed this behavior to go on until the family was literally run off. That is pathetic and sad!!!!!!!!!!!!! :foottapHe was not the pastor he wanted people/his saints to think he was! Some may say, you go to church to worship God...TRUE , BUT, if some of the s"AINTS" are making your life miserable and they are being hateful for no reason other than their own ignorance, then you go to the pastor for his assistance.....and he all but turns his head?????? , then God understands why you need to go elsewhere!! Shame on you Terry Black for being everything BUT a TRUTHFUL loving pastor and a devoted leader of "your" flock! Be sure your sins will find you out!:irate p.s. you are right....many people want to hold the denomination/faith accountable...when it could and does happen in MANY different denominations! Apostolics are not perfect...even tho many of ones think they are:shockamoo...truely dillusional!!!!
Amen about NOT trashing, or holding the Apostolic Church in contempt for individual failure(s). Our Lord Jesus Christ {THE PERFECT PREACHER} had the original 12 men disciples; he was PERFECT towards leading them, but Judas made his OWN decision to do wrong, and NOT repent; the other 11 disciples went on to ETERNAL GLORY!!! Judas is known throughout history for his OWN failure; not the church-yes, we have flaws and imperfection, but if we continue to walk with integrity before God; He will perfect that which He has began in us unto eternal glory!!!
Tlswift2009
01-10-2013, 10:13 PM
I hope and pray that all of the church body at TPC has your attitude. God is able to bring good from this evil. God bless you all.
Amen!!! Insider has delivered such a very POWERFUL post!!!!!
Tlswift2009
01-10-2013, 10:18 PM
Thank you, there is still a lot of collateral damage but it is my prayer that people come to terms with it and move on.
Also there was a question about the 'Jackal Rant' mentioned in my previous post. That was in reference to what TB did the following Sunday after news of the allegations were revealed. He got up in front of the TPC congregation and in an attempt to bully the board members and his accusers, he called them 'Jackals'. The context was that Jackals seek out the wounded, surround them and then attack them. He actually said, and I quote. "We shoot Jackals".
That quote went out over the internet and was later removed. It left us speechless that he would react in this way. We all knew what he was attempting to do. But his attempt at intimidation backfired. The rest is history as they say.
My Lord, TB helped me back in 1996, and 2003 through some very tough times, and I'm not a member {I have/do fellowship with TPC} of the church. My Lord, we must pray for him to come to contrite, and genuine repentance that his soul will be made right, and delivered with God. It's hard to believe this has happened inhis life, but the scripture is FULL of incidents with failure {some gross} within leadership. My Lord, heal the hearts of your people at TPC, and all others that have been affected by this/these incidents. Thanks again INSIDER...
H Gang
01-10-2013, 10:25 PM
How many people on here have actually spoke to TB? How many of you have verified facts with him or his family? I can tell you, I have. A lot of things are way off on this forum. And for those who keep stating he should apologize to the church, he asked the board for the opportunity to speak to the church immediately- they denied him.
So..........you talked to him and according to his version of the facts, a lot of the things on here aren't true............
Coming from the man who wove an intricate web of lies for years...all the while projecting himself as the defender of "Apostolic Identity"...
It's a little hard to swallow. I would think telling more lies wouldn't be difficult if you've worked so hard for so many years to project a false image of yourself.
Regardless, it's like saying "Oh that murderer didn't kill 15 people, he only killed 1".
H Gang
01-10-2013, 10:34 PM
Here ya go:
https://www.facebook.com/ApostolicsofMemphis
Weird. Facebook's own search couldn't find it. Had to use Google.
Look out Memphis! Buckle up...
H Gang
01-10-2013, 10:54 PM
There are less cowardly and more biblical ways to find out what's going on than by airing dirty laundry on the internet. Who would want to pastor people who feel they have to share their drama with the world?
As he continues to read the next post....ROFL!!!!!!
mizpeh
01-10-2013, 10:55 PM
How much of the story do you need to know to "learn"? The Bible is clearly explains how to handle faulty leadership. If this group really cared about the feelings and well being of the hurting saints, this thread would have been closed the first day.Enough of the story so we can learn from it and see that it doesn't happen again.
Since this incident was made public at a church meeting, why do you call it gossip if people discuss it? (I haven't read this whole thread...only small sections of it.)
H Gang
01-10-2013, 10:58 PM
How much of the story do you need to know to "learn"? The Bible is clearly explains how to handle faulty leadership. If this group really cared about the feelings and well being of the hurting saints, this thread would have been closed the first day.
*Scrolling down to the next post, appalled at what he reads...*
Tlswift2009
01-10-2013, 11:13 PM
You will be part of the healing process for TPC...it is difficult to take a spiritual hit such as this situation, but, with the a close relationship with God himself, and a heart to learn and teach, along with a group of honest leaders seeking truly what is best for the Church , you all will come out stronger, wiser, and have more compassion for having been through this valley of deception...To God be all glory and honor for what the future holds...
blessings your way
The Rev
Amen!!!! INSIDER has already blessed many. many of God's people with the post. I have a good handful of friends that attends/attended TPC that were greatly hurt/wounded bu this unfortunate incident. God's word yet tells us that "all things {even the evil/sinful} worketh together for the good of them that are the called according to his purpose"; God will savage his church because the gates of hell cannot prevail against the Church of jesus Christ. There are people that have left this local church, but God may use them in other ways within other churches. I remeber how the severe persecution {troubles} hit the early church during the death of that faithful man Stephen, and how the chrch scattered and went about publushing the gospel far more than when they were all huddled together. I DO NOT hope for the scattering of TPC because I DO NOT believe it's God purpose, but the incident/situations that has ocurred should make it a stronger better place of worship, and outreach post to win the lost souls of memphis, and round about. Oftentimes, God HAS to do some PURGING of the tree in order to gain much more fruit. TPC has/is a GREAT church for the Kingdom of God, but perhaps; its been in needing of a prunning??? We do/can get comfortable, and/or lose God's main purpose for each local assembly; especially when things gets too comfortable, and perhaps prosperous; we tend to lose focus, and sometimes drift off like King David did in many areas of our lives as a church assembly, and in our personal lives; believe me; this situation is working for the GOOD of many in/for many reasons: A CHURCH CANNOT CONTINUE TO GO FORTH IF IT'S INFECTED WITH SIN; ESPECIALLY WITHIN THE HEAD LEADERSHIP(S); God MUST take away the dross/chaff, and trim the tree. TPC WILL SURVIVE AND THRIVE IF THE PEOPLE WILL PRAY-FAST-TRUST AND LOOK TO JESUS!!! GREAT THINGS ARE IN THE WAITING FOR SO MANY FAR AND NEAR!!!
Tlswift2009
01-10-2013, 11:35 PM
If everyone at TPC had the "good attitude" described in an earlier post, you would have hundreds of "insiders" with scoops and the truth clamoring to share with the world their interpretation of the facts.
You know, people respond to circumstances in different ways sometimes; I'd just hate to be the person(s) who causes unrest and harm among God's sheep. God will rstore his sheep that's been wounded if they allow God to do it, and I pray that the leadership be restored as well....
Tlswift2009
01-10-2013, 11:40 PM
One of the hardest times of my life was going thru a similar situation as this thread describes. The hardest thing for me to overcome was not the forgiveness part, for I know things that I have done that the Lord has forgiven me for, one sin is no worse than another, it all keeps us out of heaven, but I had a very hard time helping my family thru it. They were young, and were very fragile. I owe my thanks to Jesus for helping us through it, but I felt like I was on very thin ice for a very long time. This is not something that will be a quick healing......for some maybe, but there are so many different aspects of healing that will need to take place. God is able to do it all but you can bet that the enemy is licking his chops to get the leftovers that TB left.
Amen, and I'm so glad that your faith allowed you to skate on through what appeared to be thin ice-God held you up so that you could continue to hold up your family-VICTORY!!!! Yep, old slue footed satan is licking his chops, but he will NOT be munching on God's people. God said that He will PREPARE a table for US in the presence of our enemies; the sheep of God will be chomping and eating the word/medicine of HEALING!!!
Tlswift2009
01-10-2013, 11:42 PM
Great post. Thank you for sharing your heart. I think the vast majority of readers and posters on this thread do not "hold one denomination or faith hostage for the actions of one man". There has been criticism of church systems that elevate the pastor to a position with no accountibilty but that is not limited to UPC churches. The point is that pators needs to protect themselves and their churches by having accountibility measures in place.
You stated in your post that you would never again be part of a church without accountibility or one that practiced nepotism. That is exactly what most are talking about on here. Hopefully this thread and posts like yours will make pastors and saints reading take steps to make sure their situation is a correct one and they protected from something like this.
A hearty amen!!!!!
Tlswift2009
01-10-2013, 11:45 PM
My heart bleeds for you and your family. The enemy will do his bidding. As I have gotten older and more experienced I have come to believe that it will truly be a miracle if any of us make it. We are all so fallible. The world around us is falling to pieces. Just look at America and the situation she finds herself in at this time. Corruption at all levels of our government. I actually heard today of a father that was selling his 17 year old daughter in prostitution to support his drug habit.
And that is just one example of the pure evil this world faces. We all must rise to the challenges that will soon befall us. The Bible tells us that in the last days will be perilous times. The enemy is truly licking his chops. Whether you are a Pastor or pauper the enemy cares not. But when he brings a Pastor down there is always collateral damage. Truly heartbreaking.
Amen!!! The main problem that I see with saved people is that our AFFECTIONS is oftentimes wading in the world, and we're slowly emulating them instead of leading them to emulate Chrust: we/many christians want to be saved, but straddle in the world, and its sinful appetites. We MUST keep our hearts and eyes upon the Lord jesus Christ who is able to keep ALL those that trust in Him...
Tlswift2009
01-10-2013, 11:49 PM
I thought Insider was writing to set the record straight without throwing out accusations or innuendo. He wrote of the hurt and devastation of some of the loyal saints who had been betrayed with forgiving heart toward TB and a desire to see TB do what is right, repent and find reconcilation with God. And if TB had humbled himself and repented, do you think this would be an issue? Wouldn't love have covered up the offense when repentance is offered?
tv1a, I'd prefer to talk about this type of thing without using names and places to learn from it. I'm sorry that this has happened. Good people are hurt as is God's reputation. But I'm glad Insider has given us a glimpse into the process of healing in his heart and hopefully in the heart of TPC. A better end to the story would have been if TB had repented and made restitution.
Another hearty amen!!!!!
Praxeas
01-10-2013, 11:57 PM
Enough of the story so we can learn from it and see that it doesn't happen again.
Since this incident was made public at a church meeting, why do you call it gossip if people discuss it? (I haven't read this whole thread...only small sections of it.)
Like we all know about David's indiscretion...
Airing out the drama on the internet doesn't facilitate healing. Something is wrong when people get a perverse pleasure from hurting people. You don't encourage healing by involving irrelevant people to particpate.
You know, people respond to circumstances in different ways sometimes; I'd just hate to be the person(s) who causes unrest and harm among God's sheep. God will rstore his sheep that's been wounded if they allow God to do it, and I pray that the leadership be restored as well....
Tlswift2009
01-11-2013, 05:39 AM
Airing out the drama on the internet doesn't facilitate healing. Something is wrong when people get a perverse pleasure from hurting people. You don't encourage healing by involving irrelevant people to particpate.
This site like most others are mostly for dialogue regardless of what peole might feel about it; it's up to each individual as to what they might get out of these websites. I would not believe that people are looking for healing {mostly dialogue and encouragement} on a website, or social media forum-healing comes from God, and biblically sound counsel from those persons that's qualified to do so. There's no sense of people complaining about these social forums; just make the decision as to whether you and I would like to give input; simply that...{PS}, I met a brother, and his family out of this deliemna at TPC, and we now have church fellowship and friendship together; so-all things can work for your good if people allow God to have His way, and believe me; this family has decided to keep on moving and serving God: so, this forum and its subject has/is working for someone's good; it's obvious that you cannot close people out from their freedom to speak, dialogue, etc-just pray my friend...
Insider
01-11-2013, 06:43 AM
This site like most others are mostly for dialogue regardless of what peole might feel about it; it's up to each individual as to what they might get out of these websites. I would not believe that people are looking for healing {mostly dialogue and encouragement} on a website, or social media forum-healing comes from God, and biblically sound counsel from those persons that's qualified to do so. There's no sense of people complaining about these social forums; just make the decision as to whether you and I would like to give input; simply that...{PS}, I met a brother, and his family out of this deliemna at TPC, and we now have church fellowship and friendship together; so-all things can work for your good if people allow God to have His way, and believe me; this family has decided to keep on moving and serving God: so, this forum and its subject has/is working for someone's good; it's obvious that you cannot close people out from their freedom to speak, dialogue, etc-just pray my friend...
So glad you were able to encourage and help someone that was from TPC. Some people tend to see the just the bad in all things. I choose to see the good in all things.
Airing out the drama on the internet doesn't facilitate healing. Something is wrong when people get a perverse pleasure from hurting people. You don't encourage healing by involving irrelevant people to particpate.
I think you are wrong. But then I think that often! For a moment lets say that for once in your life you are right and this doesn't "facilitate healing". At the very least it is a warning to other pastors and saints to make sure their churches have proper accountability set up for finances and other critical areas and a pastor who some sort of accountability also.
Pastor's don't typically spend their entire ministries leading duplicitous lives (although I did just find out about one that did - first affair 3 months after he married as a young man out of Bible College). While they are still right with God they need to understand they, like all of us, are subject to failure and should WANT, yay I say even INSIST that accountability for them and the church finances be in place. Those are the pastors I pray read this thread and take action.
Steve Epley
01-11-2013, 08:29 AM
I think you are wrong. But then I think that often! For a moment lets say that for once in your life you are right and this doesn't "facilitate healing". At the very least it is a warning to other pastors and saints to make sure their churches have proper accountability set up for finances and other critical areas and a pastor who some sort of accountability also.
Pastor's don't typically spend their entire ministries leading duplicitous lives (although I did just find out about one that did - first affair 3 months after he married as a young man out of Bible College). While they are still right with God they need to understand they, like all of us, are subject to failure and should WANT, yay I say even INSIST that accountability for them and the church finances be in place. Those are the pastors I pray read this thread and take action.
While any failure in the ministry is inexcusable and horribly affects so many and those who do so become infamous. I do want to remind everyone the great majority of preachers are faithful to their God-wives-churches. Most are givers instead of takers. They never get mentioned and don't expect it since it is their duty and privilege. Sometime when events like this take place it becomes easy to lump all into one batch. We preachers also suffer with the failures of saints we pastor that destroy their families and sometimes target the church itself.
CC1 is correct many times living a double life begins early but in time they are their own undoing. No one is smart enough to get by forever.
Cindy
01-11-2013, 08:29 AM
There are 3 sides to this mess, TB's, others, and the truth.
Cindy
01-11-2013, 08:30 AM
While any failure in the ministry is inexcusable and horribly affects so many and those who do so become infamous. I do want to remind everyone the great majority of preachers are faithful to their God-wives-churches. Most are givers instead of takers. They never get mentioned and don't expect it since it is their duty and privilege. Sometime when events like this take place it becomes easy to lump all into one batch. We preachers also suffer with the failures of saints we pastor that destroy their families and sometimes target the church itself.
CC1 is correct many times living a double life begins early but in time they are their own undoing. No one is smart enough to get by forever.
Amen
BonnieFried
01-11-2013, 09:20 AM
I've got to tell ya, I was impressed when this thread was closed. As the admins stated, the thread and topics have been exhausted. It's really exposed a lot of people's personal agendas and axes they have to grind.
How many people on here have actually spoke to TB? How many of you have verified facts with him or his family? I can tell you, I have. A lot of things are way off on this forum. And for those who keep stating he should apologize to the church, he asked the board for the opportunity to speak to the church immediately- they denied him.
For those truly concerned about him- He and Sis. Black are doing just fine.
I pray that those on here who spew bitterness out with every post or bring innocent children into this really consider their words before posting again.
I am sure there will be those who attack me for what I've said...but really people-move on. Apostolics are the worst at devouring their own- and preaching forgiveness and acceptance but then be selective to whom it is given.
I would be extremely cautious about taking anything that TB or his family say for truth about the matter. First of all evidently without question TB HAS been proven to lie over the past few years and not just about the recent events. As for his family they are only hearing or listening to his side. I hate what his family is having to go through and can't imagine the disappointment they're dealing with and they have been manipulated as much as anyone. But they are wrong in telling mistruths as they travel around. I have visited and been close to TPC over the past 15 years or so and when I was told certain information that came from a TB family member I verified it with sources that would certainly know if that was the way it played out or not and it was not. For instance, they told they were fired. Well, that's not what I was told. TB negotiated them out when he found out he was going to have to leave. Besides, come on people do you really think the kids would have felt at home at a church that had just dismissed their father on such horrendous charges? AWKWARD! That's just one example of things I'm hearing from the TB family or TB "supporters" that was not quite the whole truth. I wish TPC well and pray they will be sensitive to the Lord in choosing their next pastor. Greater things are to come.
Insider
01-11-2013, 09:27 AM
I think you are wrong. But then I think that often! For a moment lets say that for once in your life you are right and this doesn't "facilitate healing". At the very least it is a warning to other pastors and saints to make sure their churches have proper accountability set up for finances and other critical areas and a pastor who some sort of accountability also.
Pastor's don't typically spend their entire ministries leading duplicitous lives (although I did just find out about one that did - first affair 3 months after he married as a young man out of Bible College). While they are still right with God they need to understand they, like all of us, are subject to failure and should WANT, yay I say even INSIST that accountability for them and the church finances be in place. Those are the pastors I pray read this thread and take action.
These are wise words. Typically I am against speaking of these types of church issues on a public forum. When this first came to light TPC members aired this all over FB. That was foolish and ill-advised. It was non-productive. It caused ill-feelings because there were those that had no idea what was going on and those that did. It caused a ton of hurt and mistrust. I chose not to participate. I also chose not to post here. At first it was very difficult to read posts here that were full of misinformation. And honestly some of the comments hurt. TPC is MY church family. But is way more than that. It is my life. I am very involved there.
In my bewilderment and confusion there were emotions I have never felt before. Having said that, and now that 3 months have passed I can talk about it with a clear head and balance of thought. I feel others can benefit from what happened. I am not here to throw darts or stones. My hope is that we ALL can learn a valuable lesson from what happened at TPC. The really sad fact is there are many churches, of all faiths, that are currently using the same paradigm that was previously being used at TPC. Unfettered reign of all aspects of the church being controlled by one person. This is NOT biblical and is a disaster waiting to happen. You give that much leeway and power to any man and the flesh will eventually take over.
StillStanding
01-11-2013, 09:37 AM
These are wise words. Typically I am against speaking of these types of church issues on a public forum. When this first came to light TPC members aired this all over FB. That was foolish and ill-advised. It was non-productive. It caused ill-feelings because there were those that had no idea what was going on and those that did. It caused a ton of hurt and mistrust. I chose not to participate. I also chose not to post here. At first it was very difficult to read posts here that were full of misinformation. And honestly some of the comments hurt. TPC is MY church family. But is way more than that. It is my life. I am very involved there.
In my bewilderment and confusion there were emotions I have never felt before. Having said that, and now that 3 months have passed I can talk about it with a clear head and balance of thought. I feel others can benefit from what happened. I am not here to throw darts or stones. My hope is that we ALL can learn a valuable lesson from what happened at TPC. The really sad fact is there are many churches, of all faiths, that are currently using the same paradigm that was previously being used at TPC. Unfettered reign of all aspects of the church being controlled by one person. This is NOT biblical and is a disaster waiting to happen. You give that much leeway and power to any man and the flesh will eventually take over.
:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup
Godzchild
01-11-2013, 11:02 AM
I would be extremely cautious about taking anything that TB or his family say for truth about the matter. First of all evidently without question TB HAS been proven to lie over the past few years and not just about the recent events. As for his family they are only hearing or listening to his side. I hate what his family is having to go through and can't imagine the disappointment they're dealing with and they have been manipulated as much as anyone. But they are wrong in telling mistruths as they travel around. I have visited and been close to TPC over the past 15 years or so and when I was told certain information that came from a TB family member I verified it with sources that would certainly know if that was the way it played out or not and it was not. For instance, they told they were fired. Well, that's not what I was told. TB negotiated them out when he found out he was going to have to leave. Besides, come on people do you really think the kids would have felt at home at a church that had just dismissed their father on such horrendous charges? AWKWARD! That's just one example of things I'm hearing from the TB family or TB "supporters" that was not quite the whole truth. I wish TPC well and pray they will be sensitive to the Lord in choosing their next pastor. Greater things are to come.
Glad you said that bc a "family member" was on here and posted some things and then was called a liar by some of the more "up to date" posters.....and it was said they were not really a family member or they would not have said what they did! So glad everyone KNOWS the REAL facts of who is who....:confused: Dont know if any truth will ever come out of TB bc like I posted earlier, he stood by and allowed things to happen when a family was literally run off bc they were "not accepted" by some of the "important/big tithers" members......(race was the issue)... he KNEW of this and was confronted a few times , but never done anything to stop it as a pastor. If he allowed this to happen what makes anyone think he would be honest in ANY other things? He DID ask for the evidence against him to be destroyed~ Ok, he is a real honest man.:club What a thought....that if the person/persons with the evidence of his wrongs would have said ok....and got rid of it, I wonder how many more messages he would have preached from the pulpit...all along living a life of LIES!!!! A pastor is supposed to be the leader, keeper and shepard of his flock...???!! TB and his lies were actually very evident starting back in 2005...and some of the members that left to attend another UPC church in OB will tell you , he was everything but a pastor. He has ran some of the youth off as well.....using his personal judgement on their personal "family" problems. I have forgiven TB for his wrongs...1. Im not God and the HE is the ONLY Judge of us...2. if we cant forgive then we will not be forgiven as well , so I will not sling mud. I think enough has been slung. I pray for his wife more than anything that she will find peace and be able to overcome. I am praying for all of the former/current and board members of TPC. They are the ones who need the most support in prayer. God bless each of them.
Your point could be made without hundreds of posts on the topic. There is a way to discuss accountability without dragging a hurting congregation thru the mud.
What about the adverse affect of reminding ministers to cover their tracks? You can discuss accountabilty with integrity.
I think you are wrong. But then I think that often! For a moment lets say that for once in your life you are right and this doesn't "facilitate healing". At the very least it is a warning to other pastors and saints to make sure their churches have proper accountability set up for finances and other critical areas and a pastor who some sort of accountability also.
Pastor's don't typically spend their entire ministries leading duplicitous lives (although I did just find out about one that did - first affair 3 months after he married as a young man out of Bible College). While they are still right with God they need to understand they, like all of us, are subject to failure and should WANT, yay I say even INSIST that accountability for them and the church finances be in place. Those are the pastors I pray read this thread and take action.
You think that's what God had in mind when he discouraged gossip and discord?
There are 3 sides to this mess, TB's, others, and the truth.
Cindy
01-11-2013, 11:26 AM
You think that's what God had in mind when he discouraged gossip and discord?
Well, since some people can be blind to their own sins. Maybe there are only 2 sides. The truth and eyewitness accounts.
Praxeas
01-11-2013, 12:53 PM
Airing out the drama on the internet doesn't facilitate healing. Something is wrong when people get a perverse pleasure from hurting people. You don't encourage healing by involving irrelevant people to particpate.
Who are the hurting people in your scenario?
BonnieFried
01-11-2013, 01:00 PM
HA! He did not have a Hot Tub in his office. You should not believe everythign you hear.
Wasn't a hot tub but a steam shower. Kinda like a sauna. Still pretty sweet deal.
BonnieFried
01-11-2013, 01:05 PM
Just curious as to why you feel or believe that TB has not repented?! I know for a fact that he asked for the opportunity to address the church, but was denied.
No man knows another's heart, just because you haven't seen or heard from him doesn't mean he's not repented.
He had the opportunity to repent and ask forgiveness the night of the resignation, which you would have thought would be the most logical time for that!??? But, no he wants to come back and get behind TPC pulpit after the fact??? I can't say I blame the board or whoever of TPC for NOT letting that happen at this point. That's some messed up thinking right there.
Godzchild
01-11-2013, 01:50 PM
He had the opportunity to repent and ask forgiveness the night of the resignation, which you would have thought would be the most logical time for that!??? But, no he wants to come back and get behind TPC pulpit after the fact??? I can't say I blame the board or whoever of TPC for NOT letting that happen at this point. That's some messed up thinking right there.
Amen! This is a fact...he had the chance but instead played the victim:tricycle
not4saken
01-11-2013, 06:32 PM
This thread has officially become BORING.
:bored
This thread has officially become BORING.
:bored
Uh.....what exactly are you expecting?
not4saken
01-11-2013, 06:48 PM
Uh.....what exactly are you expecting?
an ENDING to the repetiousness???
AreYouReady?
01-11-2013, 07:06 PM
I usually quit reading the boring threads. Just sayin.....:)
Godzchild
01-11-2013, 07:25 PM
an ENDING to the repetiousness???
:aaawhhhaaaaaatttttt?????? and be bored all day:igotit :lol
Godzchild
01-11-2013, 07:29 PM
Uh.....what exactly are you expecting?
some more of....:stirpot:rolleyes2
not4saken
01-11-2013, 07:36 PM
I usually quit reading the boring threads. Just sayin.....:)
WHY, BLESS YOUR HEART!....*batting eyes rapidly and smiling coyly*
POINT taken...now, why didn't I think of THAT???!!! LOL Sall good, I guess...
:kittyhug
not4saken
01-11-2013, 07:39 PM
some more of....:stirpot:rolleyes2
Of course! *wink* Just like the rest of y'all....
BUT.. I'm gonna take some good advice, and bow out for TODAY...and maybe tomorrow- not sure HOW long I can stay away, tho. It just DRAWS me back in!!! LOL
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Tlswift2009
01-11-2013, 07:40 PM
So glad you were able to encourage and help someone that was from TPC. Some people tend to see the just the bad in all things. I choose to see the good in all things.
I see, but better yet; God see His church people {TPC}, and He love this assembly of people, and God will see TPC though their trying/testinf time of stedfast FAITH in God. God places spiritual leadership in our lives to lead, guide, pray for, and to nurture, empower and equip His people for His glory, and for Kingdom Ministry here on earth, and if that leadership gets off course; God will steer the ship {correct leadership}, but if that leadership decides to go williflly against God's will; God will remove that leadership, and keep His people in His will, and continue to ORDER the steps of TPC, and all of His local {worldwide} churches. It's unfortunate when leadership looses their reverence, fear, and integrity in remaining faithful to God and His people; and leadership is accountable to the people they lead, and the community that's observing the Christ in us. There is a grave difference between having faults and shortcomings in our lives that God and His word can strengthen us and deliver us out of, and this blatant, willful, gross sin(s) that the are committed; I've experienced both, and have had to confess, and repent, and God was/is gracious to not only forgive, but to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. I've fellowship with TPC on for over 20 years, and great worships, moves of God and souls have been saved and prospered through the will of God. Your earlier post has blessed and helped so, so many; it helped my grieved spirit about this matter; moreso; the people of God that's left in the aftermath. We do have some that call us that's yet hurt and healing, and we lend our ears for venting, our hearts for comfort, and our prayers for God's consolation: TPC WILL NOT ONLY SURVIVE, BUT GO ON TO BE THAT BEACON OF LIGHT, HOPE, AND SALVATION FOR COUNTLESS OTHERS!!!
Tlswift2009
01-11-2013, 07:51 PM
I think you are wrong. But then I think that often! For a moment lets say that for once in your life you are right and this doesn't "facilitate healing". At the very least it is a warning to other pastors and saints to make sure their churches have proper accountability set up for finances and other critical areas and a pastor who some sort of accountability also.
Pastor's don't typically spend their entire ministries leading duplicitous lives (although I did just find out about one that did - first affair 3 months after he married as a young man out of Bible College). While they are still right with God they need to understand they, like all of us, are subject to failure and should WANT, yay I say even INSIST that accountability for them and the church finances be in place. Those are the pastors I pray read this thread and take action.
Amen....tv1a opinion is his opinion, which is NOT law for others-"let every man be persuaded by his own mind"-that's bible, and when we usurp ourselves above bible instructions; you get into self, and trouble(s)....there are many that uses bad situations to further troubles, and there are some that can be helped through social media. tv1a; you cannot legislate others thoughts and opinions based upon your OWN: NO DICTATION(S) ALLOWED MY FRIEND!!!!
Tlswift2009
01-11-2013, 07:53 PM
While any failure in the ministry is inexcusable and horribly affects so many and those who do so become infamous. I do want to remind everyone the great majority of preachers are faithful to their God-wives-churches. Most are givers instead of takers. They never get mentioned and don't expect it since it is their duty and privilege. Sometime when events like this take place it becomes easy to lump all into one batch. We preachers also suffer with the failures of saints we pastor that destroy their families and sometimes target the church itself.
CC1 is correct many times living a double life begins early but in time they are their own undoing. No one is smart enough to get by forever.
AMEN!!!!!!
Tlswift2009
01-11-2013, 07:56 PM
these are wise words. Typically i am against speaking of these types of church issues on a public forum. When this first came to light tpc members aired this all over fb. That was foolish and ill-advised. It was non-productive. It caused ill-feelings because there were those that had no idea what was going on and those that did. It caused a ton of hurt and mistrust. I chose not to participate. I also chose not to post here. At first it was very difficult to read posts here that were full of misinformation. And honestly some of the comments hurt. Tpc is my church family. But is way more than that. It is my life. I am very involved there.
In my bewilderment and confusion there were emotions i have never felt before. Having said that, and now that 3 months have passed i can talk about it with a clear head and balance of thought. I feel others can benefit from what happened. I am not here to throw darts or stones. My hope is that we all can learn a valuable lesson from what happened at tpc. The really sad fact is there are many churches, of all faiths, that are currently using the same paradigm that was previously being used at tpc. Unfettered reign of all aspects of the church being controlled by one person. This is not biblical and is a disaster waiting to happen. You give that much leeway and power to any man and the flesh will eventually take over.
amen, and that's what took place
Tlswift2009
01-11-2013, 07:59 PM
he had the opportunity to repent and ask forgiveness the night of the resignation, which you would have thought would be the most logical time for that!??? But, no he wants to come back and get behind tpc pulpit after the fact??? I can't say i blame the board or whoever of tpc for not letting that happen at this point. That's some messed up thinking right there.
yep, it may do more damage now???? Should have dealt with this at resignation time-the church is trying to heal and move on now...
Last I check, the Bible gave explicit instruction how to handle the unfortunate situations like what "happened" in Memphis. Everyone who "posted the truth" about what happen has ulterior motives.I provided verse after verse supporting my view. The Bible says God hates gossip and snooping into other people's business. This thread violates principles established in 1 Corinthians 13 and Phillipians 4:8. Not my opinion but facts. The Bible tells us how to deal with these situations. There is nothing new under the sun. You don't have to drag people's misey into your conversation. The ultimate goal is healing for the offended and restoration for the offender. Deliberately encouraging diaolog does not accomplish either. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Amen....tv1a opinion is his opinion, which is NOT law for others-"let every man be persuaded by his own mind"-that's bible, and when we usurp ourselves above bible instructions; you get into self, and trouble(s)....there are many that uses bad situations to further troubles, and there are some that can be helped through social media. tv1a; you cannot legislate others thoughts and opinions based upon your OWN: NO DICTATION(S) ALLOWED MY FRIEND!!!!
AreYouReady?
01-12-2013, 12:06 PM
WHY, BLESS YOUR HEART!....*batting eyes rapidly and smiling coyly*
POINT taken...now, why didn't I think of THAT???!!! LOL Sall good, I guess...
:kittyhug
Heh. I like you.
:hug3
Fiyahstarter
01-12-2013, 12:11 PM
The ultimate goal is healing for the offended and restoration for the offender. Deliberately encouraging diaolog does not accomplish either. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
ADD to the above goals.... To help keep this from happening in other unsuspecting churches EVER AGAIN through establishing
A C C O U N T A B I L I T Y
Cross-checks and accountability are PART OF THE SOLUTION. But first we have to admit we have a problem!
We learn from our mistakes. I don't know TB from TPC from Adam. But what I do know is that the scenario under which this church functioned exists everywhere... and as we've already pointed out over and over, it is senseless temptation. It is a scandal begging to happen.
AreYouReady?
01-12-2013, 12:24 PM
ADD to the above goals.... To help keep this from happening in other unsuspecting churches EVER AGAIN through establishing
A C C O U N T A B I L I T Y
Cross-checks and accountability are PART OF THE SOLUTION. But first we have to admit we have a problem!
We learn from our mistakes. I don't know TB from TPC from Adam. But what I do know is that the scenario under which this church functioned exists everywhere... and as we've already pointed out over and over, it is senseless temptation. It is a scandal begging to happen.
:thumbsup :nod
This very same thing happens over and over because it is the 2000 elephant in the room that nobody wants to acknowledge.
Steve Epley
01-12-2013, 12:28 PM
Can I give the other side without seeming to be excusing any bad business practices? Most Pentecostal churches were built by a handful of folks who sacrificed lead by a pastor who sacrificed much to bring them to where they are. They were honest and kingdom minded. Many had to borrow many against their own names because institutions would not loan churches money. So at times churches would be in the pastor's name not by choice but of a necessity. Pentecostals had seen or denominations hire and fire preachers at whim run by two or three church board members. That would fire a preacher if he stepped on their toes. Thus the set up we have today. Where the preacher was given the right to preach his heart and make most decisions concerning the church. Now these churches are old and the founding pastors are dead or retired and the 2nd-3rd-4th-generation of pastors and saints were given a wonderful heritage and some do not appreciate it nor respect it. Again as sad as this is this is NOT the norm most churches has existed for decades without scandal or impropriety.
seekerman
01-12-2013, 12:43 PM
The problem is that the tens of thousands of 'churches' are built upon a Romanist system of religion and most folks never read their bible enough to realize this. If the church was organized as the early church was, you'd not have as many problems.
Fiyahstarter
01-12-2013, 02:10 PM
Can I give the other side without seeming to be excusing any bad business practices? Most Pentecostal churches were built by a handful of folks who sacrificed lead by a pastor who sacrificed much to bring them to where they are. They were honest and kingdom minded. Many had to borrow many against their own names because institutions would not loan churches money. So at times churches would be in the pastor's name not by choice but of a necessity. Pentecostals had seen or denominations hire and fire preachers at whim run by two or three church board members. That would fire a preacher if he stepped on their toes. Thus the set up we have today. Where the preacher was given the right to preach his heart and make most decisions concerning the church. Now these churches are old and the founding pastors are dead or retired and the 2nd-3rd-4th-generation of pastors and saints were given a wonderful heritage and some do not appreciate it nor respect it. Again as sad as this is this is NOT the norm most churches has existed for decades without scandal or impropriety.
Good points!
Also maybe the reason it is mostly family members working in the ministry is because they are the only ones willing to devote the time (even though this may be because they have to--if it's their names on the mortgages, their livelihoods at stake, etc. Regardless, shame on the rest of us saints for being perfectly willing to sit on the pews and let others do all the work.)
Oh, I see how we got where we are... But I just don't feel good about the situation.
I think the answer lies here: The saints need to know the ministers are NOT in it for the money. Pastors need to have open reports about incoming/outgoing money and about the good services they provide to the needy community. The paid ministerial staff should not all be family members (and not all family members should be paid ministerial staff). Outreach should be for God's sake, not for share of tithe's sake. Pastors who have $500,000 homes and all the fineries of life should have such because of other-than-church income. (Surely there should be a limit to a pastor's salary, I don't care how big the church gets. If pastoring is about making a living, it has lost its meaning.)
If these reassurances were provided to the saints, they would also provide protection (through accountability) to the pastor, who would be less likely to fall with these such guardrails in place.
There was a day when I felt it was sufficient to say, "Well, if I can't trust the pastor, then I should find another church." Now, the times dictate more than that. Even though, as you say, it is NOT THE NORM, it has happened enough -- and every time these scandals happen, the saints are floored and simply cannot believe that THEIR pastor would do such a thing and they recoil to lick their wounds . . . But worse than that, GOD's reputation takes a direct hit amongst the non-believers who continue to believe that they "sit on barstools with better folks."
Just my opinions...
p.s. I am not a pastor hater. I love my pastor dearly... but guess what? So did these guys.
p.s.s. Oh yeah, and those men who risked everything years ago to build their little church are HEROES in my book. We may not know who they are, but God does.
GOD BLESS!
AreYouReady?
01-12-2013, 03:57 PM
The problem is that the tens of thousands of 'churches' are built upon a Romanist system of religion and most folks never read their bible enough to realize this. If the church was organized as the early church was, you'd not have as many problems.
:thumbsup
StillStanding
01-12-2013, 04:33 PM
I know this has been discuss it his forum, but the idea of tithes was so the priests could live equally with the other tribes. My opinion is that pastors should live at the same income level as the members. If you pastor a wealthy church, you can take a bigger salary. Something is out of balance when an average to low income church has a pastor driving a BMW and living in a castle. The pastor is not a king. The pastor is a servant leader.
Praxeas
01-12-2013, 04:37 PM
I know this has been discuss it his forum, but the idea of tithes was so the priests could live equally with the other tribes. My opinion is that pastors should live at the same income level as the members. If you pastor a wealthy church, you can take a bigger salary. Something is out of balance when an average to low income church has a pastor driving a BMW and living in a castle. The pastor is not a king. The pastor is a servant leader.
A wealthy church can be made up of a majority of medium to low level income families too.
Accountability can be discussed without dragging TPC into the conversation. TPC situation isn't none of your business. It's between the TPC congegregation, their leadership, and the offender. I don't think your naïve to believe a little discussion on social media will change a person's to be more accountable. You and I have enough trash in our backyards without going through someone else's garbage.
As it was mentioned, no one knows the truth. The only thing we have on this forum is people's perception of reality. The Bible is full of examples if you want to talk about accountability.
ADD to the above goals.... To help keep this from happening in other unsuspecting churches EVER AGAIN through establishing
A C C O U N T A B I L I T Y
Cross-checks and accountability are PART OF THE SOLUTION. But first we have to admit we have a problem!
We learn from our mistakes. I don't know TB from TPC from Adam. But what I do know is that the scenario under which this church functioned exists everywhere... and as we've already pointed out over and over, it is senseless temptation. It is a scandal begging to happen.
Would you agree its harder to get rid of a bad board member than a bad pastor.
Can I give the other side without seeming to be excusing any bad business practices? Most Pentecostal churches were built by a handful of folks who sacrificed lead by a pastor who sacrificed much to bring them to where they are. They were honest and kingdom minded. Many had to borrow many against their own names because institutions would not loan churches money. So at times churches would be in the pastor's name not by choice but of a necessity. Pentecostals had seen or denominations hire and fire preachers at whim run by two or three church board members. That would fire a preacher if he stepped on their toes. Thus the set up we have today. Where the preacher was given the right to preach his heart and make most decisions concerning the church. Now these churches are old and the founding pastors are dead or retired and the 2nd-3rd-4th-generation of pastors and saints were given a wonderful heritage and some do not appreciate it nor respect it. Again as sad as this is this is NOT the norm most churches has existed for decades without scandal or impropriety.
Fiyahstarter
01-12-2013, 07:06 PM
Accountability can be discussed without dragging TPC into the conversation. TPC situation isn't none of your business. It's between the TPC congegregation, their leadership, and the offender. I don't think your naïve to believe a little discussion on social media will change a person's to be more accountable. You and I have enough trash in our backyards without going through someone else's garbage.
As it was mentioned, no one knows the truth. The only thing we have on this forum is people's perception of reality. The Bible is full of examples if you want to talk about accountability.
Once again, you are in error. The offender brought this to the forefront/public eye by his indiscretions . . . Not me.
What is naieve is to hope it will be swept under the rug.
ACCOUNTABILITY
Stick with it, you'll catch on.
Farfel
01-12-2013, 07:19 PM
tv1a, if you don't like that the events of TPC are being discussed, then why have you been reading this thread?
Hoovie
01-12-2013, 07:39 PM
Can I give the other side without seeming to be excusing any bad business practices? Most Pentecostal churches were built by a handful of folks who sacrificed lead by a pastor who sacrificed much to bring them to where they are. They were honest and kingdom minded. Many had to borrow many against their own names because institutions would not loan churches money. So at times churches would be in the pastor's name not by choice but of a necessity. Pentecostals had seen or denominations hire and fire preachers at whim run by two or three church board members. That would fire a preacher if he stepped on their toes. Thus the set up we have today. Where the preacher was given the right to preach his heart and make most decisions concerning the church. Now these churches are old and the founding pastors are dead or retired and the 2nd-3rd-4th-generation of pastors and saints were given a wonderful heritage and some do not appreciate it nor respect it. Again as sad as this is this is NOT the norm most churches has existed for decades without scandal or impropriety.
Steve, you have stated this as well as I have ever heard.
I agree. The systems are in place and were developed "not by choice but of a necessity". Understanding this is key to effecting any change or maturity.
Thank You!
not4saken
01-12-2013, 08:07 PM
Heh. I like you.
:hug3
LOL "Meew-choo-wal, I'm sure!" (as stated by the buxom blond bombshell in WHITE CHRISTMAS).....LOL
:dogpat:dogpat:dogpat
Tlswift2009
01-13-2013, 02:06 AM
can i give the other side without seeming to be excusing any bad business practices? Most pentecostal churches were built by a handful of folks who sacrificed lead by a pastor who sacrificed much to bring them to where they are. They were honest and kingdom minded. Many had to borrow many against their own names because institutions would not loan churches money. So at times churches would be in the pastor's name not by choice but of a necessity. Pentecostals had seen or denominations hire and fire preachers at whim run by two or three church board members. That would fire a preacher if he stepped on their toes. Thus the set up we have today. Where the preacher was given the right to preach his heart and make most decisions concerning the church. Now these churches are old and the founding pastors are dead or retired and the 2nd-3rd-4th-generation of pastors and saints were given a wonderful heritage and some do not appreciate it nor respect it. Again as sad as this is this is not the norm most churches has existed for decades without scandal or impropriety.
bingo-bull's eye correct!!!!!
Tlswift2009
01-13-2013, 02:08 AM
tv1a, if you don't like that the events of TPC are being discussed, then why have you been reading this thread?
Amen!!!! tv1a wants his opinion to rule/dominate this thread-no way; your one voice is all that you have...
Tlswift2009
01-13-2013, 02:13 AM
Once again, you are in error. The offender brought this to the forefront/public eye by his indiscretions . . . Not me.
What is naieve is to hope it will be swept under the rug.
ACCOUNTABILITY
Stick with it, you'll catch on.
The prophecy went forth upon King David; what he had done in the dark would be scandalized upon his housetop-Absolon was one of David's cruel hands of reaping when he took David's concubines and laid with them openly on the housetop....God will bring to light sin(s)..."Be NOT deceived, God is NOT mocked; whatsoever a man soweth; that shall he also reap".
The Bible leaves no room for opinion on this matter. It explicitly gives instructions how to handle moral failure in the church. It's fact. Read Phillipians 4:8. Read 1 Corinthians 13. Have you read the scripture where is says gossipers, people who cause dissension and those who like to get involve in other people's business will have no part og God's Kingdom. I'm embarassed for you if you think God's Word is someone's opinion.
Amen!!!! tv1a wants his opinion to rule/dominate this thread-no way; your one voice is all that you have...
The bigger question is why are you encouraging actions that clearly are against God's mandate. The person who refuses to do what is right is sinning.
tv1a, if you don't like that the events of TPC are being discussed, then why have you been reading this thread?
Godzchild
01-13-2013, 09:06 AM
Amen!!!! tv1a wants his opinion to rule/dominate this thread-no way; your one voice is all that you have...
:woot duh....!
Farfel
01-13-2013, 10:17 AM
The bigger question is why are you encouraging actions that clearly are against God's mandate. The person who refuses to do what is right is sinning.
I'm not encouraging anything. I'm simply asking why you're reading and replying to this thread if you are against it.
Never mind everyone else for a moment. If this thread is wrong, as you say it is, then wouldn't you be a busybody for reading it?
scotty
01-13-2013, 11:05 AM
Im sure tv1a is reading as I am.
In total disbelief that you people have nothing better to do.
Plus it allows me to see what kind of 'christians' (using the term loosely) I converse with on a daily basis.
This is what a forum is about. To discuss and debate the topic.
Godzchild
01-13-2013, 11:49 AM
I'm not encouraging anything. I'm simply asking why you're reading and replying to this thread if you are against it.
Never mind everyone else for a moment. If this thread is wrong, as you say it is, then wouldn't you be a busybody for reading it?
:woohoo
The Bible separates the contenders from the pretenders. I'm flabbergasted at the arroganceof those when pointed out Biblical reasons why this topic should be stopped dead in its tracks. They believe the Bible doesn't mean what it says or the Bible doesn't apply to them.
Im sure tv1a is reading as I am.
In total disbelief that you people have nothing better to do.
Plus it allows me to see what kind of 'christians' (using the term loosely) I converse with on a daily basis.
This is what a forum is about. To discuss and debate the topic.
Farfel
01-13-2013, 01:21 PM
The Bible separates the contenders from the pretenders. I'm flabbergasted at the arroganceof those when pointed out Biblical reasons why this topic should be stopped dead in its tracks. They believe the Bible doesn't mean what it says or the Bible doesn't apply to them.
My question remains unanswered.
scotty
01-13-2013, 01:51 PM
My question remains unanswered.
You can't simplify the answer any further.
I read it. Think it should be closed. It's not productive.
If the only defense you have for participating in such gossip when called on it is to point out that I read it then you answered your own question.
Farfel
01-13-2013, 02:00 PM
You can't simplify the answer any further.
I read it. Think it should be closed. It's not productive.
If the only defense you have for participating in such gossip when called on it is to point out that I read it then you answered your own question.
Take a look back at my post history on this thread. I don't believe that any of my posts can be deemed "gossip." If merely posting in the thread qualifies it for gossip, then you too are guilty.
Either way you look at it, my question hasn't been answered.
scotty
01-13-2013, 03:41 PM
Take a look back at my post history on this thread. I don't believe that any of my posts can be deemed "gossip." If merely posting in the thread qualifies it for gossip, then you too are guilty.
Either way you look at it, my question hasn't been answered.
LOL, well if your post can not be deemed as gossip then apparently he is not talking to you, lol.
And yes, your question has been answered, whether you accept that answer or not is your problem.
Fiyahstarter
01-13-2013, 04:06 PM
TV is the main reason this thread has lasted as long as it has... lol
Praxeas
01-13-2013, 04:13 PM
TV is the main reason this thread has lasted as long as it has... lol
Thanks TV! :yourock
TV is the main reason this thread has lasted as long as it has... lol
Let the church say AMEN!!! LOL. It appears he revels in his role bemoaning the nerve of people discussing this subject. Makes me ponder if one can have pride in their piousness.
BonnieFried
01-13-2013, 08:12 PM
www.therenewalblog.com
Anyone want to pay $50 to hear this man speak on restoration?! Checked out his bio and was really surprised to hear that his church in Memphis had a membership of 1,020 at the time of his resignation. This man has a problem with telling the truth cause I'm pretty sure that church never ran that many in members. Not sure they even reached that on special occasions or special events. Wow!
scotty
01-13-2013, 08:24 PM
Let the church say AMEN!!! LOL. It appears he revels in his role bemoaning the nerve of people discussing this subject. Makes me ponder if one can have pride in their piousness.
of course not, you can only have pride in condemnation.
revdtzombik
01-14-2013, 08:37 AM
www.therenewalblog.com
Anyone want to pay $50 to hear this man speak on restoration?! Checked out his bio and was really surprised to hear that his church in Memphis had a membership of 1,020 at the time of his resignation. This man has a problem with telling the truth cause I'm pretty sure that church never ran that many in members. Not sure they even reached that on special occasions or special events. Wow!
WOW
Hoovie
01-14-2013, 08:42 AM
www.therenewalblog.com
Anyone want to pay $50 to hear this man speak on restoration?! Checked out his bio and was really surprised to hear that his church in Memphis had a membership of 1,020 at the time of his resignation. This man has a problem with telling the truth cause I'm pretty sure that church never ran that many in members. Not sure they even reached that on special occasions or special events. Wow!
Perhaps you are talking "attendance" rather than "membership"?
scotty
01-14-2013, 08:58 AM
Perhaps you are talking "attendance" rather than "membership"?
Or perhaps just 'talking'
Amazing the sudden increase in forum membership when a pastor goes down in flames.
RandyWayne
01-14-2013, 09:21 AM
Or perhaps just 'talking'
Amazing the sudden increase in forum membership when a pastor goes down in flames.
Or..............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfmYCM4CS8o
BonnieFried
01-14-2013, 12:42 PM
Perhaps you are talking "attendance" rather than "membership"?
It says Membership tho not attendance
Godzchild
01-14-2013, 01:03 PM
On a MORE positive and LESS argumentative note.......Heard the new church "Apostolics of Memphis" went great for the opening service. Happy for you guys~ May God bless, move and continue to expand your church! Have heard David Ellis speak b4 and he knows how to get things "fired" up :shockamoo Keep up the Lords work A. of M. :yourock
deacon blues
01-14-2013, 02:16 PM
The problem is that the tens of thousands of 'churches' are built upon a Romanist system of religion and most folks never read their bible enough to realize this. If the church was organized as the early church was, you'd not have as many problems.
Predictable
deacon blues
01-14-2013, 02:18 PM
TPC situation isn't none of your business.
That would make it his business...
not4saken
01-14-2013, 02:20 PM
:heeheehee
Godzchild
01-14-2013, 02:40 PM
...when anyone figures out what "Pentecostal cussing" is...please feel free to post your answer....:girlytantrum
BonnieFried
01-14-2013, 03:13 PM
On a MORE positive and LESS argumentative note.......Heard the new church "Apostolics of Memphis" went great for the opening service. Happy for you guys~ May God bless, move and continue to expand your church! Have heard David Ellis speak b4 and he knows how to get things "fired" up :shockamoo Keep up the Lords work A. of M. :yourock
Please tell me this is not the same DE that called TB an apostle???? I was told that's why he left TPC because he was such a big supporter of TB. That sounds a little fishy too me.:smack TB is probably behind that work but if he's not then I wish them the best. Never can have too many penny cost churches lol
Godzchild
01-14-2013, 03:24 PM
Please tell me this is not the same DE that called TB an apostle???? I was told that's why he left TPC because he was such a big supporter of TB. That sounds a little fishy too me.:smack TB is probably behind that work but if he's not then I wish them the best. Never can have too many penny cost churches lol
actually yep....that is the same one...but i heard from a CLOSE source TB is not behind this....however...ya know what lies have already been told thus far so......:ouch????? ur guess is as good as mine!
not4saken
01-14-2013, 04:22 PM
I think someone should insert the following in TB's Bio!!
TB holds the prestigious honor of generating the most interest on the internationally acclaimed forum, AFF. His story has had over 170,000 views to date. A record breaking feat in the realm of AFF. Go TB!!!
:happydance:happydance:happydance:happydance
revdtzombik
01-14-2013, 04:28 PM
Please tell me this is not the same DE that called TB an apostle???? I was told that's why he left TPC because he was such a big supporter of TB. That sounds a little fishy too me.:smack TB is probably behind that work but if he's not then I wish them the best. Never can have too many penny cost churches lol
It is the same DE
Tlswift2009
01-14-2013, 09:57 PM
I'm not encouraging anything. I'm simply asking why you're reading and replying to this thread if you are against it.
Never mind everyone else for a moment. If this thread is wrong, as you say it is, then wouldn't you be a busybody for reading it?
He reminds me of those kind of people on fb that like to take you around in a circle of nothingness if you allow them....
Farfel
01-14-2013, 10:13 PM
He reminds me of those kind of people on fb that like to take you around in a circle of nothingness if you allow them....
Yep. That's why I walked away from it.
patpent888
01-14-2013, 10:25 PM
Let me assure you A of M is a new work- Not a TPC daughter work, Not a church split, and Not a work backed by TB. DE-is his own man. He loves TB and his family. DE can stand on his own two feet. I heard about Sunday's service at A of M...if you ask me, God has raised up DE in Mphs to take this city. TB is to be honored for his many years of service at TPC. He is a man...men were never created to be perfect. Leave him and his business alone! His family deserves a chance to heal. He deserves the same offer of restoration that he gave soooooo many ppl in the congregation at TPC. All of you judgmental spirits-acting like you are perfect...how dare you?!?! TPC deserves a chance to move on and heal. DE and his new work should not be judged...it's not your place. DE has always been a man of integrity as long as I've known him. His life has reflected a steady walk with God. He's been in truth 10 years now. I've never known him to back down from truth. If anyone thinks otherwise, watch out! The measure of judgement you pour out, you will receive. AND...just to set the record straight-JR (DE's Associate Pastor) has always been a man of integrity. He has always been steady in his walk with the Lord. He's never tried to create a forum for himself and perhaps thats why the Lord has chosen him...such a pure spirit. And his wife-probably one of the most faithful saints TPC had-she worked hard in Children's ministry for many years...she is sensitive to the voice of God and will be an incredible asset to DE's church. Sad TPC lost her and JR. God is doing something bigger than TPC in my opinion. If I could, I'd go check out DE's work...I recently left the area with work. I'll be back to visit soon tho and you better believe I will be checking out A of M!!
This mess in Memphis needs to stop! I heard TPC was asked to "shun" A of M...Lol! Thats really christian of you! It's not the way ppl of truth should behave! Let everyone move on. There is too many souls at risk to be lost to focus so much on this mess!
Praxeas
01-14-2013, 10:41 PM
DE=Defensive End?
not4saken
01-14-2013, 10:44 PM
:icecream
H Gang
01-14-2013, 11:07 PM
This mess in Memphis needs to stop! I heard TPC was asked to "shun" A of M..
Oh yeah, and TB never told anybody to shun anyone in Memphis. If it wasn't going on at TPC, it wasn't worth supporting. Could've united churches in the area, but it was a one man show, God could only be found at TBs church...funny how it's all about uniting now...
Praxeas
01-14-2013, 11:24 PM
So facts become myth and myth becomes legend??
RandyWayne
01-14-2013, 11:45 PM
So facts become myth and myth becomes legend??
And all knowledge of the ring pasts out of existence.
Until chance came.......
not4saken
01-14-2013, 11:53 PM
And all knowledge of the ring pasts out of existence.
Until chance came.......
Chance? As in Mike Chance?? When did HE show up??!! :happydance
RandyWayne
01-15-2013, 12:05 AM
And all knowledge of the ring pasts out of existence.
Until chance came.......
"Myyyyyyy Precioussssssss........!"
scotty
01-15-2013, 04:09 AM
And all knowledge of the ring pasts out of existence.
Until chance came.......
"Myyyyyyy Precioussssssss........!"
Too funny . :thumbsup
It appears Biblical principles mean nothing to you?
He reminds me of those kind of people on fb that like to take you around in a circle of nothingness if you allow them....
Warm fuzzies doesn't always mean God's approval.
On a MORE positive and LESS argumentative note.......Heard the new church "Apostolics of Memphis" went great for the opening service. Happy for you guys~ May God bless, move and continue to expand your church! Have heard David Ellis speak b4 and he knows how to get things "fired" up :shockamoo Keep up the Lords work A. of M. :yourock
Bump.
LOL, well if your post can not be deemed as gossip then apparently he is not talking to you, lol.
And yes, your question has been answered, whether you accept that answer or not is your problem.
Godzchild
01-15-2013, 09:14 AM
Warm fuzzies doesn't always mean God's approval.
:coffee2 u dont say.....
Godzchild
01-15-2013, 10:31 AM
DE=Defensive End?
:heeheehee As "MEMPORGANIST" said...DE is the UNDER shepard......????:blah:blah:blah
Godzchild
01-15-2013, 10:42 AM
Let me assure you A of M is a new work- Not a TPC daughter work, Not a church split, and Not a work backed by TB. DE-is his own man. He loves TB and his family. DE can stand on his own two feet. I heard about Sunday's service at A of M...if you ask me, God has raised up DE in Mphs to take this city. TB is to be honored for his many years of service at TPC. He is a man...men were never created to be perfect. Leave him and his business alone! His family deserves a chance to heal. He deserves the same offer of restoration that he gave soooooo many ppl in the congregation at TPC. All of you judgmental spirits-acting like you are perfect...how dare you?!?! TPC deserves a chance to move on and heal. DE and his new work should not be judged...it's not your place. DE has always been a man of integrity as long as I've known him. His life has reflected a steady walk with God. He's been in truth 10 years now. I've never known him to back down from truth. If anyone thinks otherwise, watch out! The measure of judgement you pour out, you will receive. AND...just to set the record straight-JR (DE's Associate Pastor) has always been a man of integrity. He has always been steady in his walk with the Lord. He's never tried to create a forum for himself and perhaps thats why the Lord has chosen him...such a pure spirit. And his wife-probably one of the most faithful saints TPC had-she worked hard in Children's ministry for many years...she is sensitive to the voice of God and will be an incredible asset to DE's church. Sad TPC lost her and JR. God is doing something bigger than TPC in my opinion. If I could, I'd go check out DE's work...I recently left the area with work. I'll be back to visit soon tho and you better believe I will be checking out A of M!!
This mess in Memphis needs to stop! I heard TPC was asked to "shun" A of M...Lol! Thats really christian of you! It's not the way ppl of truth should behave! Let everyone move on. There is too many souls at risk to be lost to focus so much on this mess!
"TB is to be honored for his many years of service at TPC" :blah:blah:blah Many years of lies, extortion, and more lies....preaching about "doing things you have no business doing on the internet"......:foottap yea, ok....but while "preaching" that sermon....wonder who was on the other end of the illicit pics, emails and other things found on the CHURCH laptop and his Blackberry...dont know and do NOT care! But DO NOT come on here and make him out to be a victim or a good pastor ... pastor to some of his saints that he could not have given one big pile of :trashcan about! TB has NO business ever holding a preachers position again , let alone being "honored" for his "years of LOYAL and GOOD pastorship".....:nobodycares:vomit
AreYouReady?
01-15-2013, 10:45 AM
Well....I'm not going to recommend any of these churches to my loved one up in Memphis.
Godzchild
01-15-2013, 10:49 AM
Well....I'm not going to recommend any of these churches to my loved one up in Memphis.
:highfive
PrincessofGod
01-15-2013, 12:08 PM
Oh yeah, and TB never told anybody to shun anyone in Memphis. If it wasn't going on at TPC, it wasn't worth supporting. Could've united churches in the area, but it was a one man show, God could only be found at TBs church...funny how it's all about uniting now...
AMEN! They Believe they are the only ones making heaven
Godzchild
01-15-2013, 12:12 PM
AMEN! They Believe they are the only ones making heaven
:hug4 so there u are ... I was wondering where u have been!:bubble
BonnieFried
01-15-2013, 01:58 PM
Oh yeah, and TB never told anybody to shun anyone in Memphis. If it wasn't going on at TPC, it wasn't worth supporting. Could've united churches in the area, but it was a one man show, God could only be found at TBs church...funny how it's all about uniting now...
That's the truth! I have lots of family and friends in the TN district and they said he wasn't even a supporter of the district much less the local assemblies. I doubt TPC has been told to shun the A of M's probably more like please go! I would imagine they are at a point if you can't get on board with what's happening at TPC then go somewhere you can. Of course, they may be saying if you go there then obviously you must be moving your membership or something. I can see where they would be saying make a choice either here or there.
I would think the only problem with DE starting a church so soon and so close is it would seem like an intentional move to cause a church split. I don't mean to speak hurtful of DE cause I don't know him but I'm just going on what I've seen online and heard from those that talk about how he built TB up and put him almost above God himself.
revdtzombik
01-15-2013, 02:07 PM
Well....I'm not going to recommend any of these churches to my loved one up in Memphis.
Do you have loved ones that are not attending Church in the Memphis area that need to be ministered to?
H Gang
01-15-2013, 02:16 PM
AMEN! They Believe they are the only ones making heaven
Several weeks ago one of the "ministers" on staff HB got up and said "This church is STILL the greatest show in Memphis! It's the greatest church in Memphis!" The attitude that was engrained into the congregation from the top down remains. It's not a God's Kingdom mindset and hoping all the churches do well and reach the city---no, its a My Kingdom mindset and only wanting one church to get all of the credit for being the most spiritual, the most committed, the most in tune with God, the only church that God truly approves of. It's sickening.
forced2view
01-15-2013, 03:52 PM
"TB is to be honored for his many years of service at TPC" :blah:blah:blah Many years of lies, extortion, and more lies....preaching about "doing things you have no business doing on the internet"......:foottap yea, ok....but while "preaching" that sermon....wonder who was on the other end of the illicit pics, emails and other things found on the CHURCH laptop and his Blackberry...dont know and do NOT care! But DO NOT come on here and make him out to be a victim or a good pastor ... pastor to some of his saints that he could not have given one big pile of :trashcan about! TB has NO business ever holding a preachers position again , let alone being "honored" for his "years of LOYAL and GOOD pastorship".....:nobodycares:vomit
You do have to wonder how a preacher with his background, training, and even his own commitment in the past, can put his call to the ministry and his burden for the lost so much in the background of his mind while making a mockery of all that is Holy. To stand behind a sacred desk admonishing others against what HE is doing, possibly minutes after he preaches, is almost blasphemy in my opinion. It is hard to understand how that kind of person could ever be trusted to be restored if he is that capable and willing to deceit the people to that degree. I am not saying it is impossible, but it would be very hard to trust this man for a very long time if ever. There are very few of these men that make it back to the position (not necessarily pastor) that they were at in God before the fall. Part of it probably is the fact that the uphill battle of gaining trust with the people to the degree that it was before is virtually impossible and with good reason. Forgiveness is one thing and trust is quite another. I can forgive a friend for coming to my house and stealing money, however it will be long time before I afford that person the privilege of being in my house again and be trusted while they are there.
For a pastor to think so little of his congregation to be able to put their souls in such a critical state, I am not sure that he could ever love a congregation enough again to be their leader. Unless he sits in a congregation where this happens to him he will never know what it feels like to be so violated by someone that you think you can trust with your life.
chad1957662
01-15-2013, 04:10 PM
Several weeks ago one of the "ministers" on staff HB got up and said "This church is STILL the greatest show in Memphis! It's the greatest church in Memphis!" The attitude that was engrained into the congregation from the top down remains. It's not a God's Kingdom mindset and hoping all the churches do well and reach the city---no, its a My Kingdom mindset and only wanting one church to get all of the credit for being the most spiritual, the most committed, the most in tune with God, the only church that God truly approves of. It's sickening.
Technically this is true. HB did say that, but he is a young minister that has been in church for about 10 years, and been under the influence of TB's leadership. The majority of TPC does NOT feel this way. They are hoping that God will send a Pastor that will love them and put them back into fellowship with the other UPC churches in the section. In the past the TPC calendar was so full (whether intentional by TB or Not) that other district functions besides camp meetings were not announced or supported.
As far as DE and the A of M, most these members had already quit coming and were attending church in Jackson, TN. DE was told that he would no longer sit on the platform and lead service at TPC like he did when TB was Pastor (This would now be shared with other ministers along with him and CJ). DE is a good person at heart, but he thought he was being elevated in ministry because of spiritual reasons, while now he is realizing he was being deceived like all of us, and that he was the one gullible enough to follow CJ's lead by declaring TB an "Apostle". It was even mentioned one time during a ministerial association meeting (MA) that he led, that an "Apostle" could write scripture. Many present in the room stared in disbelief that they anyone could propose such a thing.
I don't know anyone at TPC that does not love both he and his Assistant Pastor JR. It hurts the church that they would use this time to capitalize on the vulnerability of TPC to proselyte saints to another newly formed assembly. If they were going to reach the lost, then why not go after the lost instead of asking TPC members to attend? It just shows us that it was all about DE being on the platform, and unwilling to be placed on equal level with the other ministers until a new pastor was elected.
If God is in it (and we pray the he will bless them) A of M will win many souls! But proselytizing other saints is not a biblical way to build your new ministry.
Godzchild
01-15-2013, 04:16 PM
You do have to wonder how a preacher with his background, training, and even his own commitment in the past, can put his call to the ministry and his burden for the lost so much in the background of his mind while making a mockery of all that is Holy. To stand behind a sacred desk admonishing others against what HE is doing, possibly minutes after he preaches, is almost blasphemy in my opinion. It is hard to understand how that kind of person could ever be trusted to be restored if he is that capable and willing to deceit the people to that degree. I am not saying it is impossible, but it would be very hard to trust this man for a very long time if ever. There are very few of these men that make it back to the position (not necessarily pastor) that they were at in God before the fall. Part of it probably is the fact that the uphill battle of gaining trust with the people to the degree that it was before is virtually impossible and with good reason. Forgiveness is one thing and trust is quite another. I can forgive a friend for coming to my house and stealing money, however it will be long time before I afford that person the privilege of being in my house again and be trusted while they are there.
For a pastor to think so little of his congregation to be able to put their souls in such a critical state, I am not sure that he could ever love a congregation enough again to be their leader. Unless he sits in a congregation where this happens to him he will never know what it feels like to be so violated by someone that you think you can trust with your life.
:highfive
Godzchild
01-15-2013, 04:19 PM
Technically this is true. HB did say that, but he is a young minister that has been in church for about 10 years, and been under the influence of TB's leadership. The majority of TPC does NOT feel this way. They are hoping that God will send a Pastor that will love them and put them back into fellowship with the other UPC churches in the section. In the past the TPC calendar was so full (whether intentional by TB or Not) that other district functions besides camp meetings were not announced or supported.
As far as DE and the A of M, most these members had already quit coming and were attending church in Jackson, TN. DE was told that he would no longer sit on the platform and lead service at TPC like he did when TB was Pastor (This would now be shared with other ministers along with him and CJ). DE is a good person at heart, but he thought he was being elevated in ministry because of spiritual reasons, while now he is realizing he was being deceived like all of us, and that he was the one gullible enough to follow CJ's lead by declaring TB an "Apostle". It was even mentioned one time during a ministerial association meeting (MA) that he led, that an "Apostle" could write scripture. Many present in the room stared in disbelief that they anyone could propose such a thing.
I don't know anyone at TPC that does not love both he and his Assistant Pastor JR. It hurts the church that they would use this time to capitalize on the vulnerability of TPC to proselyte saints to another newly formed assembly. If they were going to reach the lost, then why not go after the lost instead of asking TPC members to attend? It just shows us that it was all about DE being on the platform, and unwilling to be placed on equal level with the other ministers until a new pastor was elected.
If God is in it (and we pray the he will bless them) A of M will win many souls! But proselytizing other saints is not a biblical way to build your new ministry.
:nod
AreYouReady?
01-15-2013, 05:40 PM
Do you have loved ones that are not attending Church in the Memphis area that need to be ministered to?
Yes. But my loved one doesn't exactly need to be ministered to. My loved one needs a supportive church to worship in with like-minded people.
My loved one does not need emotional drama in a place where support, prayer, love and guidance should be given.
Has your loved one tried Bethel Church in Bartlett Tennessee? The pastor lives in Memphis so I assume Bartlett is a suburb of Memphis. I haven't seen the pastor in years, but he was an influential youth leader in the district I grew up in. A great and honorable man with many of the same beliefs you share.
Yes. But my loved one doesn't exactly need to be ministered to. My loved one needs a supportive church to worship in with like-minded people.
My loved one does not need emotional drama in a place where support, prayer, love and guidance should be given.
Several weeks ago one of the "ministers" on staff HB got up and said "This church is STILL the greatest show in Memphis! It's the greatest church in Memphis!" The attitude that was engrained into the congregation from the top down remains. It's not a God's Kingdom mindset and hoping all the churches do well and reach the city---no, its a My Kingdom mindset and only wanting one church to get all of the credit for being the most spiritual, the most committed, the most in tune with God, the only church that God truly approves of. It's sickening.
I am sincerely hoping you have misquoted him here and this man did not say his church was the "greatest SHOW in Memphis". If so that is very sad to have that perspective of your church.
Godzchild
01-16-2013, 08:39 AM
I am sincerely hoping you have misquoted him here and this man did not say his church was the "greatest SHOW in Memphis". If so that is very sad to have that perspective of your church.
Unfortunantly, this sounds about right coming from the pulpit, bc when my family were members there, and it had been said more than once ~ Uh oh....more "gossip"....:heeheehee
rgcraig
01-16-2013, 08:54 AM
TLS, I watched that video from their website. "The greatest show in Memphis" was what the minister said. This attitude is pervasive in many churches. Obviously most people choose the church they attend because it best suits them, they like it, they feel its the best place to worship for themselves and or their family. But when someone carries the attitude that they are better than others...pride comes before a fall. And a big part of the problem is it's a "show" rather than a walk with God, a Spirt-filled, Spirit-led life.
I believe God has more than one church in a city trying to reach the masses. It would serve us well to believe He is using large, medium and small sized churches to get the job done. It would serve us well to believe that God is visiting more than one congregation each Sunday, and that there are many churches that are equally as precious and as important in God's sight as the one I attend. It would serve us all well to pray for those other churches, love them, hope for their success in fulfilling the Great Commission and consider them a part of the same great cause that we are a part of, even going so far as seeing them as our brothers and sisters in Christ.
Religious elitism is sickening.
Here's the original post talking about "the greatest show" (posted 11/29/12)
I think it was poor choice of words and since it has been deleted from the archives, apparently, someone else thought the same.
H Gang
01-17-2013, 05:01 PM
RG, did you try to locate it on their website?
deacon blues
01-17-2013, 05:41 PM
RG, did you try to locate it on their website?
It's been scrubbed.
not4saken
01-18-2013, 05:01 AM
If a pastor is 'sexting' and exchanging naked pics with a female under his pastorship- is he sinning, or commiting adultery? He is married, BTW.
Peacemaker
01-18-2013, 07:21 AM
It's been scrubbed.
It wasn't scrubbed. There is nothing on their video page older than 4 weeks.
Monterrey
01-18-2013, 07:30 AM
If a pastor is 'sexting' and exchanging naked pics with a female under his pastorship- is he sinning, or commiting adultery? He is married, BTW.
Yes!
rgcraig
01-18-2013, 07:43 AM
If a pastor is 'sexting' and exchanging naked pics with a female under his pastorship- is he sinning, or commiting adultery? He is married, BTW.
Committing adultery is sinning. Sexting and exchanging nude pics is a form of adultery - IMHO.
not4saken
01-18-2013, 07:54 AM
Committing adultery is sinning. Sexting and exchanging nude pics is a form of adultery - IMHO.
This was the situation at the LAST UPCI church I attended. I walked away when the pastor said that he had hurt no one and done no wrong, since there was no physical contact...HIS daddy called me personally and told me the 'whole story'- as HE knew it. It didn't make me feel any better about this man. I am SO done with self righteousness. It makes me nauseous.
GOD HELP THESE MEN.
AreYouReady?
01-18-2013, 08:01 AM
Double post again. What am I doing that is causing double posts?
AreYouReady?
01-18-2013, 08:01 AM
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
(Matthew 5:28)
If a man/woman is exchanging nude pics and sexting....it is lust. They are looking at nude pictures ...an image of oneself.
seekerman
01-18-2013, 10:54 AM
Maybe a little public stoning of some of these sinners would be a Godly thing to do!! That'd teach them a little about the wrath of God!!
Here, let me hold your coats. (sarcasm)
Sarah
01-18-2013, 11:17 AM
If a pastor is 'sexting' and exchanging naked pics with a female under his pastorship- is he sinning, or commiting adultery? He is married, BTW.
Both! And very stupid, too!
I could never have any confidence in any man, let alone a pastor, who did this.
revdtzombik
01-18-2013, 12:27 PM
This was the situation at the LAST UPCI church I attended. I walked away when the pastor said that he had hurt no one and done no wrong, since there was no physical contact...HIS daddy called me personally and told me the 'whole story'- as HE knew it. It didn't make me feel any better about this man. I am SO done with self righteousness. It makes me nauseous.
GOD HELP THESE MEN.
Sorry for what you have been through and seen and heard....Sin is Sin and there is really no good excuse for it being in the heart, but there it is found..action on that sin instead of repenting will reap it's own...
BUT..my advice is not to judge all UPCI Preachers by that yard stick. There are many more then not trying to hold onto Truth, preach it with love, and live a holy life before both God and Man...blessings to you...
AreYouReady?
01-18-2013, 12:29 PM
Maybe a little public stoning of some of these sinners would be a Godly thing to do!! That'd teach them a little about the wrath of God!!
Here, let me hold your coats. (sarcasm)
Gee seekerman....we are told not to even talk about it...much less stoning. :heeheehee
revdtzombik
01-18-2013, 12:30 PM
Both! And very stupid, too!
I could never have any confidence in any man, let alone a pastor, who did this.
Although I certainly understand what you are saying here, keep your eyes on the Lord Jesus Christ, and put your confidence in HIM...check everything out that is preached by learning the Word for yourself...no preacher is perfect, however, it is a goal to always say and preach that which is right according to scripture, not what man says, but what HE says..
therev
seekerman
01-18-2013, 12:46 PM
Gee seekerman....we are told not to even talk about it...much less stoning. :heeheehee
Yeah, but just think how much fun a public stoning would be. The guy begging and begging, covered in blood, the life slowly ebbing from him while we know that our judgement against him is from the lord. A good head shot with the power of righteous indignation might just finish him off!! And then we can go out to an all you can eat buffet after the lord has moved and talk about what a good service we just had.
Party pooper!!
AreYouReady?
01-18-2013, 12:56 PM
Yeah, but just think how much fun a public stoning would be. The guy begging and begging, covered in blood, the life slowly ebbing from him while we know that our judgement against him is from the lord. A good head shot with the power of righteous indignation might just finish him off!! And then we can go out to an all you can eat buffet after the lord has moved and talk about what a good service we just had.
Party pooper!!
.....eh......:nah
I guess I am a party pooper.
StillStanding
01-18-2013, 04:16 PM
Being an entrepreneur, I would like to offer smooth stones (1 lb) engraved with your favorite scripture. You will look so refined as you hurl it towards the bad sinners/preachers!
Just $50 each. (I will pay tithes on profits!) :happydance
RandyWayne
01-18-2013, 04:26 PM
Being an entrepreneur, I would like to offer smooth stones (1 lb) engraved with your favorite scripture. You will look so refined as you hurl it towards the bad sinners/preachers!
Just $50 each. (I will pay tithes on profits!) :happydance
"Just look at the quality!"
http://www.reviewsontheside.com/reviews/images/life_of_brian_stones.jpg
StillStanding
01-18-2013, 04:28 PM
"Just look at the quality!"
http://www.reviewsontheside.com/reviews/images/life_of_brian_stones.jpg
Quality matters! :heeheehee
AreYouReady?
01-18-2013, 05:10 PM
lol
Cindy
01-18-2013, 05:16 PM
That is NOT funny.
Godzchild
01-18-2013, 08:41 PM
Still Standing...ur too funny!
AreYouReady?
01-18-2013, 10:15 PM
That is NOT funny.
Yeah!! That's right. It's not funny!
:girlfriend
:dogkiss
StillStanding
01-19-2013, 09:25 AM
Sorry to offend! Some of you need to recognize SARCASM when you see it. I don't have a dog in this fight, so maybe this will help close down this thread! :happydance:party:amen:bliss:yahoo
Godzchild
01-19-2013, 10:26 AM
Sorry to offend! Some of you need to recognize SARCASM when you see it. I don't have a dog in this fight, so maybe this will help close down this thread! :happydance:party:amen:bliss:yahoo
:whistle
he had to turn in his upc license and his bmw 735 the same day. humbling events.
he took 20 percent of the tithes and made over $500k a year.
$50k yr/ food allowance. he and his entire family had gas cards. he had a housing allowance and an american express card with a huge credit limit as well. drove a fairly new loaded bmw 735. he milked tpc dry. he literally raped the church. claimed the jackyls were after him.
not4saken
01-22-2013, 03:10 AM
Sorry to offend! Some of you need to recognize SARCASM when you see it. I don't have a dog in this fight, so maybe this will help close down this thread! :happydance:party:amen:bliss:yahoo
Riiiight...don't hold your breath!!! :highfive
not4saken
01-22-2013, 03:12 AM
he took 20 percent of the tithes and made over $500k a year.
$50k yr/ food allowance. he and his entire family had gas cards. he had a housing allowance and an american express card with a huge credit limit as well. drove a fairly new loaded bmw 735. he milked tpc dry. he literally raped the church. claimed the jackyls were after him.
:icecream Popcorn, anyone??? Or a Zanax, maybe??
he took 20 percent of the tithes and made over $500k a year.
$50k yr/ food allowance. he and his entire family had gas cards. he had a housing allowance and an american express card with a huge credit limit as well. drove a fairly new loaded bmw 735. he milked tpc dry. he literally raped the church. claimed the jackyls were after him.
tex,
Are you speaking from knowledge or second hand knowledge? Just asking. In situations like these things get told and retold and sometimes change a little with each telling.
Insider
01-22-2013, 06:53 AM
he took 20 percent of the tithes and made over $500k a year.
$50k yr/ food allowance. he and his entire family had gas cards. he had a housing allowance and an american express card with a huge credit limit as well. drove a fairly new loaded bmw 735. he milked tpc dry. he literally raped the church. claimed the jackyls were after him.
Hey Tex, I have a feeling we know each other. ;-) Be careful, Tattoo Man and his Gossip police will lock you up. Funny how these "Holier than thou" "Scripture Posting" "Only Concerned about the Healing of TPC" posters continue to perpetuate these threads. Last I heard all that participate in the spread of "so called" gossip are culpable. So, by their very own admission, the mere fact that they are posting on these threads makes them a participant. So that makes them as guilty as those that "supposedly" spread it. Hypocrite much! Flame retardant suit Donned. ;-P
Listen people, if you are a part of a congregation that is solely being run by one man. Even if there is a board, you must demand accountability. I would recommend the hiring of an outside certified accountant to come in and go over the books every year or so. Let this mess that happened at our church be a warning you. Don't let this happen to you! We loved our Pastor, we thought he was above reproach an we got burned. That's where forums such as this can serve a benefit to all. If someone had told me that my pastor would do such things I would have called them a liar. But, it did happen and we can all learn from it.
Demand accountability, and if the church leadership doesn't agree, then there is a good chance that something is askew. We at TPC are healing, we are a strong fellowship and Brother Brown has done a wonderful job in a very difficult situation. Just don't sit back and become complacent. Be active and demand accountability from your leadership. Don't let what happened to us happen to you.
not4saken
01-22-2013, 06:56 AM
Glass of Chardonnaaaaaaay......take me awaaaaay.......LOL
:blah
Insider
01-22-2013, 07:05 AM
tex,
Are you speaking from knowledge or second hand knowledge? Just asking. In situations like these things get told and retold and sometimes change a little with each telling.
What Tex has stated here is true and we both have paperwork created by an audit of TPC church finances to prove it.
rgcraig
01-22-2013, 07:54 AM
So sad, and I do appreciate you, Insider, wanting to warn others so this does not happen to their churches.
Praying for the complete healing and restoration of TPC.
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 08:33 AM
Hey Tex, I have a feeling we know each other. ;-) Be careful, Tattoo Man and his Gossip police will lock you up. Funny how these "Holier than thou" "Scripture Posting" "Only Concerned about the Healing of TPC" posters continue to perpetuate these threads. Last I heard all that participate in the spread of "so called" gossip are culpable. So, by their very own admission, the mere fact that they are posting on these threads makes them a participant. So that makes them as guilty as those that "supposedly" spread it. Hypocrite much! Flame retardant suit Donned. ;-P
Listen people, if you are a part of a congregation that is solely being run by one man. Even if there is a board, you must demand accountability. I would recommend the hiring of an outside certified accountant to come in and go over the books every year or so. Let this mess that happened at our church be a warning you. Don't let this happen to you! We loved our Pastor, we thought he was above reproach an we got burned. That's where forums such as this can serve a benefit to all. If someone had told me that my pastor would do such things I would have called them a liar. But, it did happen and we can all learn from it.
Demand accountability, and if the church leadership doesn't agree, then there is a good chance that something is askew. We at TPC are healing, we are a strong fellowship and Brother Brown has done a wonderful job in a very difficult situation. Just don't sit back and become complacent. Be active and demand accountability from your leadership. Don't let what happened to us happen to you.
"Tattoo man and his police"......... PRICELESS!!! :happydance
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 08:38 AM
What Tex has stated here is true and we both have paperwork created by an audit of TPC church finances to prove it.
the "gossip patrol" will be on your trail again.....:heeheehee
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 08:41 AM
he had to turn in his upc license and his bmw 735 the same day. humbling events.
very...to say the least! Wonder if he still has the old used car he drove before the Escalade ? lol
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 08:48 AM
he took 20 percent of the tithes and made over $500k a year.
$50k yr/ food allowance. he and his entire family had gas cards. he had a housing allowance and an american express card with a huge credit limit as well. drove a fairly new loaded bmw 735. he milked tpc dry. he literally raped the church. claimed the jackyls were after him.
That is the same song and dance they play when caught~ Wonder if he has had a restful nights sleep since he was caught? Probably so....he sure had no problem living a lie and getting behind the pulpit while doing so! The only ones I feel for is his mother (dear sweet soul) and his wife! I pray for them and TPC each day!!
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 08:51 AM
:icecream Popcorn, anyone??? Or a Zanax, maybe??
:tease...ill take a bag of Popcorn please! Oh yea, and some wadders ... its getting ready to get deep again....:heeheehee
seekerman
01-22-2013, 08:59 AM
Here's the thing. Amazingly, the same folks who witnessed the abuse and debacle of the religious system of TPC will run headlong, blind, deaf and dumb into another system exactly like the one that just abused them.
The romanist system and spirit is a powerful one folks. Takes the spirit of God to free you from such an unscriptural system.
No one needs to know what's going on.
"Tattoo man and his police"......... PRICELESS!!! :happydance
Steve Epley
01-22-2013, 09:13 AM
Here's the thing. Amazingly, the same folks who witnessed the abuse and debacle of the religious system of TPC will run headlong, blind, deaf and dumb into another system exactly like the one that just abused them.
The romanist system and spirit is a powerful one folks. Takes the spirit of God to free you from such an unscriptural system.
Watch out for those Romans. Again did you have an Xmas tree?
Pretty soon their church growth will be measured by how many fertile turtles pop out babies.
Here's the thing. Amazingly, the same folks who witnessed the abuse and debacle of the religious system of TPC will run headlong, blind, deaf and dumb into another system exactly like the one that just abused them.
The romanist system and spirit is a powerful one folks. Takes the spirit of God to free you from such an unscriptural system.
seekerman
01-22-2013, 09:15 AM
Watch out for those Romans. Again did you have an Xmas tree?
How long have you been under the delusion that you're lord over a 'church'?
Steve Epley
01-22-2013, 09:16 AM
How long have you been under the delusion that you're lord over a 'church'?
NOT going to answer I didn't think so?
Insider
01-22-2013, 09:28 AM
No one needs to know what's going on.
You have no dog in this hunt. Unless you have something constructive to contribute then please butt out.
seekerman
01-22-2013, 09:36 AM
NOT going to answer I didn't think so?
Just to raise your lordship a notch, why not go get one of those backward collar thingies to wear in your romanist religious system in the 'church' you lord over?
Insider
01-22-2013, 10:08 AM
Pretty soon their church growth will be measured by how many fertile turtles pop out babies.
Wow, I can just feel the compassion you have for TPC. You sir are one BIG Hypocrite. Take your unwanted Hypocritical attitude and leave.
AreYouReady?
01-22-2013, 10:15 AM
He can't leave. He appointed himself the gossip policeman. It's his job to keep the gossip threads open so he can have a job.
Cindy
01-22-2013, 10:18 AM
Wow, I can just feel the compassion you have for TPC. You sir are one BIG Hypocrite. Take your unwanted Hypocritical attitude and leave.
This is a warning, name calling is NOT tolerated.
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 10:56 AM
You have no dog in this hunt. Unless you have something constructive to contribute then please butt out.
:thumbsup
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 10:57 AM
He can't leave. He appointed himself the gossip policeman. It's his job to keep the gossip threads open so he can have a job.
:heeheehee
What's hypocritcal? You pretty much destroy any chance of reaching the lost by running your mouth.
Wow, I can just feel the compassion you have for TPC. You sir are one BIG Hypocrite. Take your unwanted Hypocritical attitude and leave.
Take your own advise. Everything you said about the situation was not constructive. Dont bring your dog to another doghouse. 99 percent of the people on this forum doesn't have a dog in the hunt. You bring your garbage to anyone who listens. You need to muzzle that dog. That's biblical.
You have no dog in this hunt. Unless you have something constructive to contribute then please butt out.
Insider
01-22-2013, 12:02 PM
What's hypocritcal? You pretty much destroy any chance of reaching the lost by running your mouth.
And your excuse is? Waiting with baited breath. Yeah, you were so concerned about TPC you made a derogatory comment about the church I Love, TPC. My comments stand. I can tell you really do care. If you REALLY cared you'd leave this conversation to those of us that actually have a stake in this. You are an outsider with a non-valid argument trying to be relevant. Everyone here knows your agenda. BTW, are you Apostolic? Your avatar and Sig sure points to you being a cruisimatic. Why don't you find a trinitarian forum to spread your hate?
scotty
01-22-2013, 12:08 PM
So, by their very own admission, the mere fact that they are posting on these threads makes them a participant. So that makes them as guilty as those that "supposedly" spread it. Hypocrite much! Flame retardant suit Donned. ;-P
Hmmm, so any time Jesus or the disciples spoke against sin they were in fact participants in same said sin?
Interesting view.
scotty
01-22-2013, 12:11 PM
And your excuse is? Waiting with baited breath. Yeah, you were so concerned about TPC you made a derogatory comment about the church I Love, TPC. My comments stand. I can tell you really do care. If you REALLY cared you'd leave this conversation to those of us that actually have a stake in this. You are an outsider with a non-valid argument trying to be relevant. Everyone here knows your agenda. BTW, are you Apostolic? Your avatar and Sig sure points to you being a cruisimatic. Why don't you find a trinitarian forum to spread your hate?
ROFL !! I don't think you will survive here for very long outside of this thread, lol. You just slammed half the members here.
navygoat1998
01-22-2013, 12:17 PM
ROFL !! I don't think you will survive here for very long outside of this thread, lol. You just slammed half the members here.
:coffee2
RandyWayne
01-22-2013, 12:18 PM
ROFL !! I don't think you will survive here for very long outside of this thread, lol. You just slammed half the members here.
Even me? LOL
I honestly don't know because for as busy as this thread has been it has been one of the least read by me so I have NO idea what's happening or what it is even about completely. Something about a pastor hobnobbing with mail order Russian brides and then getting involved with their mafia, correct me if I'm wrong..... :heeheehee
Cindy
01-22-2013, 12:18 PM
And your excuse is? Waiting with baited breath. Yeah, you were so concerned about TPC you made a derogatory comment about the church I Love, TPC. My comments stand. I can tell you really do care. If you REALLY cared you'd leave this conversation to those of us that actually have a stake in this. You are an outsider with a non-valid argument trying to be relevant. Everyone here knows your agenda. BTW, are you Apostolic? Your avatar and Sig sure points to you being a cruisimatic. Why don't you find a trinitarian forum to spread your hate?
I will ask you kindly to tone down your attitude here with an individual poster. There is an alternative for you as well.
Insider
01-22-2013, 12:20 PM
ROFL !! I don't think you will survive here for very long outside of this thread, lol. You just slammed half the members here.
You think I didn't realize this when I posted it? I am One-God Jesus Name Apostolic and non-apologetic. If you're trinitarian that is certainly your privilege. If that offends someone then so be it.
BrotherEastman
01-22-2013, 12:22 PM
ROFL !! I don't think you will survive here for very long outside of this thread, lol. You just slammed half the members here.
you noticed that as well eh? lol
Admin
01-22-2013, 12:26 PM
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Admin may remove any offensive post, or ban any members at the sole discretion of the Admin on duty at that time. In the event a thread is closed, or a person is banned, Admin staff will review the situation, and either agree to uphold the ban, or reinstate the poster. If you are banned, you have forfeited your right to communicate and post in the forums. Persons attempting to access AFF via another user ID (new or existing) are in further violation of their previous banning condition(s) and may be subject to an immediate, permanent banning. Persons relaying communications from banned users may also be banned at Admin discretion. You may receive no warning before you are banned. Discussing the ban of another member openly is prohibited. It is your responsibility to have read the rules and to know them. If you break them it will be assumed that at the time you knew you were breaking them. With the exception of those that are just "out of control", we will follow the following guidelines for banning:
First Offense: 3 day ban
Second Offense: 7 day ban
Third Offense: 1 month ban
Fourth Offense: 3 months - 1 year OR Permanent ban (at Admin's discretion)
Any member who is banned can petition Admin via email to ask for reinstatement prior to the ban being lifted. Admin will review this and make their decision.
navygoat1998
01-22-2013, 12:29 PM
You think I didn't realize this when I posted it? I am One-God Jesus Name Apostolic and non-apologetic. If you're trinitarian that is certainly your privilege. If that offends someone then so be it.
Scotty is not a Trinitarian but he is the resident AFF hug giver.:yourock Now me on the other hand :heeheehee
scotty
01-22-2013, 12:49 PM
very...to say the least! Wonder if he still has the old used car he drove before the Escalade ? lol
Productive post, good job! :thumbsup
That is the same song and dance they play when caught~ Wonder if he has had a restful nights sleep since he was caught? Probably so....he sure had no problem living a lie and getting behind the pulpit while doing so! The only ones I feel for is his mother (dear sweet soul) and his wife! I pray for them and TPC each day!!
Hmmm, but you wouldn't pray for him? And yet your "Godzchild"? No hypocricy there. :bigbaby
:tease...ill take a bag of Popcorn please! Oh yea, and some wadders ... its getting ready to get deep again....:heeheehee
And you are joyfully entertained by the thought of this?
he had to turn in his upc license and his bmw 735 the same day. humbling events.
Ahh, sarcasm at the expense of the fallen. Good stuff there.
What Tex has stated here is true and we both have paperwork created by an audit of TPC church finances to prove it.
Care to post it? I mean while we are on 200+ pages of dragging out all the mud slinging there's really no sense in stopping there. Is there?
:icecream Popcorn, anyone??? Or a Zanax, maybe??
I'll take the Zanax please ! :heeheehee
That is NOT funny.
Nope its not. Saddened that the powers that be are continuing to allow a thread that has obviously lost all of its usefulness to stay open. Discussion has ended, now its just name calling and mockery of a man who needs prayer more than anything.
Sorry to offend! Some of you need to recognize SARCASM when you see it. I don't have a dog in this fight, so maybe this will help close down this thread! :happydance:party:amen:bliss:yahoo
We could only hope, ......and pray.
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 12:55 PM
Productive post, good job! :thumbsup
Hmmm, but you wouldn't pray for him? And yet your "Godzchild"? No hypocricy there. :bigbaby
And you are joyfully entertained by the thought of this?
Ahh, sarcasm at the expense of the fallen. Good stuff there.
Care to post it? I mean while we are on 200+ pages of dragging out all the mud slinging there's really no sense in stopping there. Is there?
I'll take the Zanax please ! :heeheehee
Nope its not. Saddened that the powers that be are continuing to allow a thread that has obviously lost all of its usefulness to stay open. Discussion has ended, now its just name calling and mockery of a man who needs prayer more than anything.
We could only hope, ......and pray.
:bubble Why, Thank you~
scotty
01-22-2013, 12:59 PM
:coffee2
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
you noticed that as well eh? lol
:nod
We do not allow any rebuking, hatefulness, name calling, or verbal attacks by any person or group of people, toward any person or group of people.
This administration knows that God's Word allows for rebuking and correction under certain conditions, but because of the lack of understanding by some, as well as the differing views by a multitude of readers here, and for the sake of peace, we will not permit it under any circumstances.
200+ pages too late, . . . Wait, is there a statute of limitations ?
Scotty is not a Trinitarian but he is the resident AFF hug giver.:yourock Now me on the other hand :heeheehee
Yes !!! And always available for those who are so overcome by thier own sad failures they have to seek out others to drag through the mud so they then do not look as dirty anymore. :heeheehee
Scotty Hugs for everyone !!! :hug4(Admin, need the preceeding "hugs smiley enlarged by 5 times and label it "Scotty Hugs", thank you)
scotty
01-22-2013, 01:02 PM
:bubble Why, Thank you~
Awwww, shucks
Your more than welcome
I aim to be pleasing.
Have a Scotty Hug. Yep, come here you...we'll get you through this together. :hug4
rgcraig
01-22-2013, 01:03 PM
Awwww, shucks
Your more than welcome
I aim to be pleasing.
Have a Scotty Hug. Yep, come here you...we'll get you through this together. :hug4
Hello darlin'
Cindy
01-22-2013, 01:05 PM
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
:nod
200+ pages too late, . . . Wait, is there a statute of limitations ?
Yes !!! And always available for those who are so overcome by thier own sad failures they have to seek out others to drag through the mud so they then do not look as dirty anymore. :heeheehee
Scotty Hugs for everyone !!! :hug4(Admin, need the preceeding "hugs smiley enlarged by 5 times and label it "Scotty Hugs", thank you)
:bubble
scotty
01-22-2013, 01:10 PM
:hug4 just what I needed today....:blush :heeheehee
Whoooaaa! I am happily married.
You slam the fallen of adultry and yet allow a hug to cause your mind to wonder to the point of blushing?? Hmmm, interesting.
scotty
01-22-2013, 01:11 PM
Hello darlin'
:friend
rgcraig
01-22-2013, 01:12 PM
:friend
A side hug - the proper hug for a married man!
scotty
01-22-2013, 01:14 PM
"Looks like I have found my moving buddy"...:bliss lol
I was formerly unaware of your weaknesses.
I'm afraid I will have to re-evaluate the handling of our relationship.
You know, the whole not placing a stumbling block in front of another bit.
scotty
01-22-2013, 01:15 PM
A side hug - the proper hug for a married man!
:thumbsup
Cindy
01-22-2013, 01:16 PM
Good grief.
scotty
01-22-2013, 01:19 PM
Oh please....dont flatter urself! lol EXTREMELY HAPPILY MARRIED!!!!!!!!! You are yet still too funny!!! Did they forget to "beam you up"? :-)
I don't.
My wife flatters me exceedingly.
Yeah, the whole "beam me up" thing played out back in the days of big hair I'm afraid.
I do admire originality though, if you insist.
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 01:19 PM
Good grief.
to say the least...
scotty
01-22-2013, 01:20 PM
Good grief.
I know right?
Boredom brings out the best in me. :heeheehee
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 01:21 PM
I don't.
My wife flatters me exceedingly.
Yeah, the whole "beam me up" thing played out back in the days of big hair I'm afraid.
I do admire originality though, if you insist.
:bored
scotty
01-22-2013, 01:35 PM
:bored
Where two or more agree .. . . . . . .
RandyWayne
01-22-2013, 01:53 PM
Hello darlin'
Said in your best Conway Twitty voice?
scotty
01-22-2013, 01:58 PM
Said in your best Conway Twitty voice?
Not where she is.
Probably in her best Elvis voice.
navygoat1998
01-22-2013, 01:59 PM
Not where she is.
Probably in her best Elvis voice.
Thank ya, thank ya, vury muchhhhhh
rgcraig
01-22-2013, 02:00 PM
Said in your best Conway Twitty voice?
Just not quite as low!
OnenessChild
01-22-2013, 02:01 PM
Where two or more agree .. . . . . . .
That this thread should be shut down bc of people like you?! With that said, I will be logging off and canceling my membership to this "Apostolic Forum".... This thread is full of backwards thinking asinine acting people...such as yourself!
scotty
01-22-2013, 02:24 PM
That this thread should be shut down bc of people like you?! With that said, I will be logging off and canceling my membership to this "Apostolic Forum".... This thread is full of backwards thinking asinine acting people...such as yourself!
Another post light on content but heavy on insults.
You know what means.
Yep.
Come here you, come on. We'll get through it together...
Scotty Hugs !!! :hug4OH YEAHH !!!!!!
seekerman
01-22-2013, 02:57 PM
That this thread should be shut down bc of people like you?! With that said, I will be logging off and canceling my membership to this "Apostolic Forum".... This thread is full of backwards thinking asinine acting people...such as yourself!
Jer 12:5 "If you have run with footmen and they have tired you out, Then how can you compete with horses? If you fall down in a land of peace, How will you do in the thicket of the Jordan?
Just sayin'.
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 03:23 PM
That this thread should be shut down bc of people like you?! With that said, I will be logging off and canceling my membership to this "Apostolic Forum".... This thread is full of backwards thinking asinine acting people...such as yourself!
уебсайта ~ U already know....:ursofunny that explains everything!!! Then you see why ITS soooo sad~~~.......:heeheeheemy eyes may never stop burning.......:heeheehee:musicnotes "Thats all it took...just one look..":musicnotes Btw, call me tonight. ttyt ((HUGS))
Insider
01-22-2013, 03:36 PM
ROFL !! I don't think you will survive here for very long outside of this thread, lol. You just slammed half the members here.
Then you don't know me. I just went through one of the most difficult experiences of my life at TPC. This is recess for me.
Insider
01-22-2013, 03:48 PM
Take your own advise. Everything you said about the situation was not constructive. Dont bring your dog to another doghouse. 99 percent of the people on this forum doesn't have a dog in the hunt. You bring your garbage to anyone who listens. You need to muzzle that dog. That's biblical.
I am glad that yours is NOT the only opinion, cause quite frankly yours stinks.
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 03:49 PM
I am glad that yours is NOT the only opinion, cause quite frankly yours stinks.
:nod
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 03:52 PM
Then you don't know me. I just went through one of the most difficult experiences of my life at TPC. This is recess for me.
:cheer
scotty
01-22-2013, 03:55 PM
Then you don't know me. I just went through one of the most difficult experiences of my life at TPC. This is recess for me.
I guess you lost me. That quote was from 3 pages back and you already responded to it once.
Recess?? So in other words your "venting" ?
That's understandable. . . . and easier for others to forgive if you find yourself burning bridges you may want to cross again.
Afterall, once this thread dies on the vine you might just want to fellowship here.
Now that I have gotten all the sarcasm (well, not all, since as my wife likes to say, I'm "full of it".)( I think she meant sarcasm) out of my system I would like someone to answer something for me.
It is prevelant on the this forum to preach as doctrine to follow only God and never man because man will fail you.
Then why is it so hurtful and surprising when a man does fail?
not4saken
01-22-2013, 03:57 PM
Said in your best Conway Twitty voice?
HAHAHA- my thots exactly when I read her post!! LOL...now I can't get that freakin song outta my mind..*sigh*
Godzchild
01-22-2013, 06:22 PM
That this thread should be shut down bc of people like you?! With that said, I will be logging off and canceling my membership to this "Apostolic Forum".... This thread is full of backwards thinking asinine acting people...such as yourself!
btw, "SR" is another one.....oh well, ya know what they say about ones like that????? :heeheeheeAnd no I did not see your pm. Resend it!
What you are saying is the Bible stinks. Everyone sees through your phoniness. Please provide chapter and verse which encourages your self righteous ego. My statements stop being opinions when i point out what the Bible says on the subject of gossip. Gossip is just as divisive and damaging as lust.
I realize everyone is part of the body of Christ. You just space happen to be the between the left cheek and the right cheek.
I am glad that yours is NOT the only opinion, cause quite frankly yours stinks.
rgcraig
01-22-2013, 07:26 PM
What you are saying is the Bible stinks. Everyone sees through your phoniness. Please provide chapter and verse which encourages your self righteous ego. My statements stop being opinions when i point out what the Bible says on the subject of gossip. Gossip is just as divisive and damaging as lust.
I realize everyone is part of the body of Christ. You just space happen to be the between the left cheek and the right cheek.
Put a shirt on!
Insider
01-22-2013, 07:30 PM
What you are saying is the Bible stinks. Everyone sees through your phoniness. Please provide chapter and verse which encourages your self righteous ego. My statements stop being opinions when i point out what the Bible says on the subject of gossip. Gossip is just as divisive and damaging as lust.
I realize everyone is part of the body of Christ. You just space happen to be the between the left cheek and the right cheek.
You really should give it a rest. You keep sinking yourself with every comment.
Thanks for admitting what I said all along. You don't care about the people you worship with. It's a game to you now. It's nice to know you get your jollies from the pain of others. While people are hurting Insider treating the situation like the class bully. Thanks for revealing what many of us knew all along.
Then you don't know me. I just went through one of the most difficult experiences of my life at TPC. This is recess for me.
Insider
01-22-2013, 07:32 PM
Put a shirt on!
Now that's an Amen!
Prove it or lose it. Bring the Bible in the equation. I did. Where your scriptural reference? We know upci churches don't teach about gossip so it may be a foriegn concept to you but it's in their.
You really should give it a rest. You keep sinking yourself with every comment.
Insider
01-22-2013, 07:37 PM
Thanks for admitting what I said all along. You don't care about the people you worship with. It's a game to you now. It's nice to know you get your jollies from the pain of others. While people are hurting Insider treating the situation like the class bully. Thanks for revealing what many of us knew all along.
You really don't have a clue do you? I feel sorry for you. You are trying to make yourself relevant to a situation you haven't a clue about. Your comment about TPC earlier today shows your true character. I just helped everyone see it. You don't give a darn about our church. If you did you would have something constructive to say instead of just throwing accusations around and acting Holier than Thou.
rgcraig
01-22-2013, 07:40 PM
Thanks for admitting what I said all along. You don't care about the people you worship with. It's a game to you now. It's nice to know you get your jollies from the pain of others. While people are hurting Insider treating the situation like the class bully. Thanks for revealing what many of us knew all along.
What in the world are you talking about?
You're messed up.
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