I disagree. I think the focus on WORKS to achieve a goal, performance based relationships, is what does it.
I don't disagree. I guess for me the two were connected.
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“There's such a lot of different Annes in me. I sometimes think that is why I'm such a troublesome person. If I was just the one Anne it would be ever so much more comfortable, but then it wouldn't be half so interesting.”
Using the Bible, then, that you believe to be the Word of God. Perhaps you can answer the following question:
Jesus promised to send the following after He left to guide us into truth:
a.) A Pastor
b.) A collection of writings, put together in book form by several Christian Councils
c.) The Holy Spirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl
As I have by your own rules, been baptized in the Holy Spirit (with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues), I am therefore indwelt by said Spirit, and therefore have the necessary tools to be led to Truth.
Not believing that the Bible is inerrant or 100% authoritative does not mean that I do not find it a valuable tool. I have stated many times that I believe that it's purpose is to lead one to relationship with Jesus. And a relationship with Jesus should lead one to the infilling of the Holy Spirit, which among other things is the way that God communicates with us.
These aren't my rules, DG. Just because someone was baptized in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues years ago doesn't mean they're OSAS. There are those who have completed the so-called 3 step plan of salvation who have, as 2 Thess 2 says, "fallen away."
Why do you think Jesus came? Was it to save us? Save us from what?
I think my problem is that I talk to much. I added way too many details, and different people focus on particular details, and I ended up defending my Biblical views or theology, rather than discussing the topic I was actually interested in discussing.
I was thinking about this topic this morning, It actually made me what to go back and read the Gospels, to meditate, to focus on this feeling that I was having. That, at times past, I (I am through saying "Christianity, or "Apostolics" or "Conservatives" because it ALWAYS gets me in trouble") tended to focus on the heaven/hell aspect of the equation, as if that were the only reason Jesus came. So I was interested in exploring some other reasons that might exist.
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“There's such a lot of different Annes in me. I sometimes think that is why I'm such a troublesome person. If I was just the one Anne it would be ever so much more comfortable, but then it wouldn't be half so interesting.”
These aren't my rules, DG. Just because someone was baptized in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues years ago doesn't mean they're OSAS. There are those who have completed the so-called 3 step plan of salvation who have, as 2 Thess 2 says, "fallen away."
What if I told you that I spoke in tongues today?
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“There's such a lot of different Annes in me. I sometimes think that is why I'm such a troublesome person. If I was just the one Anne it would be ever so much more comfortable, but then it wouldn't be half so interesting.”
He came to save us from the wrath of God that we justly deserve because of our crimes against Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl
How is being born on this earth, in a human body, and being subject to it's laws and limitations a crime? And why should we be tortured for all humanity for something we can't control?
Quote:
Originally Posted by n david
In order to understand this, you would have to believe the Bible is the Word of God. IIRC, in a previous post you say the Bible is a collection of writings and not the Word of God. Because of that, you can't understand what was stated above.
It helps looking at the context of which I was responding to; it wasn't the initial post, but the subsequent post I was commenting on.
Hebrews 11 says "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.....Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." The writer of Hebrews let it be known that it takes faith to understand, and then used the first verse of the first book of the Bible as an example. The reason I said "in order to understand" is because if you don't have faith or believe in the Word of God as being authoritative, you cannot understand the simple matter of creation, much less the plan of salvation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl
I am finding it very strange that people seem to think I'm incapable of understanding any spiritual matter at all, if my thoughts about doctrine or theology differ from theirs.
It's not because your doctrine or theology differs from mine; it's because you have stated you do not believe the Bible is the authoritative word of God, but merely a nice collection of writings. How can anyone truly understand spiritual matters if they don't believe in the Bible. It's impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl
My questions is, how do they witness to someone of a different faith, or no faith, who doesn't hold the Bible to their level of preeminence? Or to someone from a different denomination, who is only ever used to a verse being used in one particular way?
The difference is, in the majority of cases, they still believe the Bible is the word of God. Especially with regards to various denominations and debates over scripture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl
I expected perhaps many mentions of the Apostles, or prophecies from the OT, but I didn't expect for people to say that the discussion was pointless because of my views on the Bible.
I never said the discussion was pointless; those are your words, not mine.
It helps looking at the context of which I was responding to; it wasn't the initial post, but the subsequent post I was commenting on.
Hebrews 11 says "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.....Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." The writer of Hebrews let it be known that it takes faith to understand, and then used the first verse of the first book of the Bible as an example. The reason I said "in order to understand" is because if you don't have faith or believe in the Word of God as being authoritative, you cannot understand the simple matter of creation, much less the plan of salvation.
It's not because your doctrine or theology differs from mine; it's because you have stated you do not believe the Bible is the authoritative word of God, but merely a nice collection of writings. How can anyone truly understand spiritual matters if they don't believe in the Bible. It's impossible.
The difference is, in the majority of cases, they still believe the Bible is the word of God. Especially with regards to various denominations and debates over scripture.
I never said the discussion was pointless; those are your words, not mine.
But discussion is pointless, if you are unable to help her understand it. But sure, if your advice is first for her to "believe the Bible is the Word of God", and then she will understand (not that I agree that that is the correct word, as opposed to "agree" ), sure. I suppose that if she takes that advice, discussion would be less "pointless". But unnecessary, perhaps?
Interesting, isn't it, how there is still so much disagreement and arguing even among people who do accept the Bible as the Word of God, and do have the Holy Spirit leading them into all truth? (Way more so than among those who don't, I'd say! )
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I believe that Jesus came to reconcile us to God, allowing us to renew our spiritual union with our creator. His Spirit indwelling our spirit. Through Christ, we become spiritually one spirit with God.
Jesus came to send the Holy Ghost down, in order that we can be 'born again. Why do we need to be 'born again? Why do we need to be 'redeemed? Redeemed from who? Or what?
Ever since Adam, every baby born, was born into sin that Satan placed on this earth, therefore Jesus came to 'REDEEM' us from being a child of Satan. Every baby born, is a child of Satan, therefore they don't have to do anything to go the the Lake of Fire.
John 8:44 (KJV)
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Jesus wasn't just singling out the Jews. We are all children of the Devil until born again. And when 'born again, then we have God's 'divine nature' inside of us.
Jesus came to send the Holy Ghost down, in order that we can be 'born again. Why do we need to be 'born again? Why do we need to be 'redeemed? Redeemed from who? Or what?
Ever since Adam, every baby born, was born into sin that Satan placed on this earth, therefore Jesus came to 'REDEEM' us from being a child of Satan. Every baby born, is a child of Satan, therefore they don't have to do anything to go the the Lake of Fire.
John 8:44 (KJV)
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Jesus wasn't just singling out the Jews. We are all children of the Devil until born again. And when 'born again, then we have God's 'divine nature' inside of us.
Not believing this is why I don't hate God.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I believe that you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit at repentance when your sins are forgiven.
If this is true.......why weren't the believers in Samaria indwelt until AFTER the apostles laid their hands on them?
Acts 8:12-17 (NLT) But now the people believed Philip’s message of Good News concerning the Kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ. As a result, many men and women were baptized. 13 Then Simon himself believed and was baptized. He began following Philip wherever he went, and he was amazed by the signs and great miracles Philip performed.
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that the people of Samaria had accepted God’s message, they sent Peter and John there. 15 As soon as they arrived, they prayed for these new believers to receive the Holy Spirit. 16 The Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, for they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers, and they received the Holy Spirit.
), sure. I suppose that if she takes that advice, discussion would be less "pointless". But unnecessary, perhaps? 
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