Hate Of Reformed Theology

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

so typical... I ask for it now. I can't keep up with which opinon which day. So where do you stand now on my question.

YAWN.

I have the same answer, Lukey.

We are once justified. If we fall out of relationship with Christ, we are no more justified. We are justified as long as we continue following Him -- and as long as we are "in Christ." It takes a lot to be removed from the protection of Christ, and to be kicked out of his family. I find it difficult, in fact. God is patient, kind and loving. But many, who continue in habitual sin, will find themselves reprobate, turned away from God, believing the lie they continued to believe anyway -- that their way was better. It is not "off and on." That's not the conditional nature of the Father's house.

Now... your turn.

Is justification once for all, or off-and-on through one's life?

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

YAWN.

I have the same answer, Lukey.

We are once justified. If we fall out of relationship with Christ, we are no more justified. We are justified as long as we continue following Him -- and as long as we are "in Christ." It takes a lot to be removed from the protection of Christ, and to be kicked out of his family. I find it difficult, in fact. God is patient, kind and loving. But many, who continue in habitual sin, will find themselves reprobate, turned away from God, believing the lie they continued to believe anyway -- that their way was better. It is not "off and on." That's not the conditional nature of the Father's house.

Now... your turn.

Is justification once for all, or off-and-on through one's life?

nice twist but "once and for all" is not how you answered. You just threw in a conditonal. "as long as". You constantly attacked my opinion saying it was works based and conditional and you didn't like conditional.

My answer... it can be on or off. It def is not a once and for all as that is OSAS. You cannot be justified before God while in sin. That is the very nature of justification. RIGHT STANDING! You cannot be in right standing relationship wise while in sin. Justification/Gods consideration of being righteous in response to his Word given. We are judged in the end by our works and whether we did follow him and actually led by his Spirit. Current positional justification is about response to God' leading concerning what has been charged for you to do according to his will revealed. We are in covenant. When I fail my pledge and the covenant I have the right to make peace with God. REPENTANCE and asking for forgiveness. This restores me by his mercy which is because of his Grace upon the cross that he is mediator of the covenant and authority to forgive and power to lead and help me overcome IF I choose to follow/submit myself. In the end God judges our works faithful or not unto eternal life which he has promised to those who follow him. Salvation is a hope to receive. It is also realization known to someone who is walking by faith which is abiding. It is also seen as a complete promise/covenant to be attained by being given eternal life to the faithful. If you do his will as he did the Fathers WILL YOU ABIDE In HIM. There is not condemnation to those who are in Christ. Why? They are DOING his WILL and being led bythe Spirit of which the Spirit bears witness to.

You teach a forensic justification with a end time acquittal (once and for all)and then turn right around and give a "condition" in your last statement. You cannot have both!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

nice twist but "once and for all" is not how you answered. You just threw in a conditonal. "as long as". You constantly attacked my opinion saying it was works based and conditional and you didn't like conditional.
...

Luke47, with respect, this is how you end up failing to understand Socialite, at least as I see it.

You have this stern works based model of salvation. The only alternative that you appear to even be capable of seeing is the exact binary opposite of your own view.

Can't you understand that Socialite may actually agree with certain aspects of the "human responsibility" side of the coin? Just because Socialite doesn't agree with how far your radical position goes, it doesn't have to follow that Soc is as radically oriented in the opposite direction.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Luke47, with respect, this is how you end up failing to understand Socialite, at least as I see it.

You have this stern works based model of salvation. The only alternative that you appear to even be capable of seeing is the exact binary opposite of your own view.

Can't you understand that Socialite may actually agree with certain aspects of the "human responsibility" side of the coin? Just because Socialite doesn't agree with how far your radical position goes, it doesn't have to follow that Soc is as radically oriented in the opposite direction.

I understand your point but I think you miss mine. I feel he is playing both sides of the fence. Even what you just said is seriously flawed. The work is Christ empowered(grace) by his Spirit. It is not MY work. It is HIS to do and to follow IF I choose. I know Socialite agrees on certain concepts but he also fails to be consistent. As any person on the OSAS would call his last post WORKS BASED LEGALISM. Yet because I have different view to him I AM THE WORKS BASED. Sorry know this whole argument all to well. You have doctrines that "it is hard to lose salvation" "easy to lose salvation" and "can't lose salvation" with a few variances in between. I cannot agree with his position as it is contradictory to way to many things. Narrow road is not hard to lose. My biggest difference is with it is easy is IMO God looks in the end at the sum of your work and your current position(justification) affects part of that. You are still in covenant/status with God but it can be bad or good. You cannot have lukewarm and "hard to lose." That is why reformed teachers HAVE TO ARGUE they where never saved in the first place. You cannot have people doing good with endurance etc... and lost and with total reprobate status about to be cast on you if you don't turn back to your first love and repent and have "it is hard to lose". Rev 2 church of Ephesus. The judgment is about the SUM of your works. Justification is a short view of current standing concerning the work God has given you. In the end god will judge you worthy or not according to your faith(response) in total.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

I understand your point but I think you miss mine. I feel he is playing both sides of the fence.

Actually, you're hearing two sides of the fence because your binary thinking put them there, Luke. It's not really a fence at all!

Even what you just said is seriously flawed. The work is Christ empowered(grace) by his Spirit. It is not MY work. It is HIS to do

Well, that was the entire subject the the thread we went back-and-forth on, "is sanctification God's work?" Glad we agree. But what I don't get is that you say in the end, we are judged by our works -- that's not jiving here. I am hearing two sides of the fence now

and to follow IF I choose. I know Socialite agrees on certain concepts but he also fails to be consistent.

Consistent to who or what? Not all things are either/or, often times they are both/and. This is the case.

As any person on the OSAS would call his last post WORKS BASED LEGALISM. Yet because I have different view to him I AM THE WORKS BASED.

Not following you. I'm not concerned what others label or call what I believe. I try to stay as close to scripture as I can.

Sorry know this whole argument all to well. You have doctrines that "it is hard to lose salvation" "easy to lose salvation" and "can't lose salvation" with a few variances in between. I cannot agree with his position as it is contradictory to way to many things. Narrow road is not hard to lose. My biggest difference is with it is easy is IMO God looks in the end at the sum of your work and your current position(justification) affects part of that.

Fair enough. You believe what you believe. I just believe God looks at HIS work, not my work, to justify me. And I think I have the majority of NT scripture on my side.

Are we still judged and have to "give account" for what we do? Yes. But what if that doesn't mean eternal judgment? We are the righteousness of Christ.

You are still in covenant/status with God but it can be bad or good.

Luke, this is the part I had a hard time following you. When I'd ask, I usually got reprimanded for not knowing my covenants enough. I really wanted to explore this more with you.

You cannot have lukewarm and "hard to lose." That is why reformed teachers HAVE TO ARGUE they where never saved in the first place.

I don't take that view. Though it's definitely true for some.

You cannot have people doing good with endurance etc... and lost and with total reprobate status about to be cast on you if you don't turn back to your first love and repent and have "it is hard to lose". Rev 2 church of Ephesus.

The judgment is about the SUM of your works. Justification is a short view of current standing concerning the work God has given you. In the end god will judge you worthy or not according to your faith(response) in total.

Read that. Doesn't that sound legalistic and in complete contrast to the whole of Galatians and Romans to you? Justification is temporary?

So how can we know we are saved? What assurance do we have that the Almighty won't send us to hell because we just weren't good enough anyway?