Hate Of Reformed Theology

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Let's hear your answer

I asked the question. So typical.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

I asked the question. So typical.

I given my answer countless times already. Still haven't gotten a straight one from you. So typical.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I given my answer countless times already. Still haven't gotten a straight one from you. So typical.

so typical... I ask for it now. I can't keep up with which opinon which day. So where do you stand now on my question.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

so typical... I ask for it now. I can't keep up with which opinon which day. So where do you stand now on my question.

YAWN.

I have the same answer, Lukey.

We are once justified. If we fall out of relationship with Christ, we are no more justified. We are justified as long as we continue following Him -- and as long as we are "in Christ." It takes a lot to be removed from the protection of Christ, and to be kicked out of his family. I find it difficult, in fact. God is patient, kind and loving. But many, who continue in habitual sin, will find themselves reprobate, turned away from God, believing the lie they continued to believe anyway -- that their way was better. It is not "off and on." That's not the conditional nature of the Father's house.

Now... your turn.

Is justification once for all, or off-and-on through one's life?

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

YAWN.

I have the same answer, Lukey.

We are once justified. If we fall out of relationship with Christ, we are no more justified. We are justified as long as we continue following Him -- and as long as we are "in Christ." It takes a lot to be removed from the protection of Christ, and to be kicked out of his family. I find it difficult, in fact. God is patient, kind and loving. But many, who continue in habitual sin, will find themselves reprobate, turned away from God, believing the lie they continued to believe anyway -- that their way was better. It is not "off and on." That's not the conditional nature of the Father's house.

Now... your turn.

Is justification once for all, or off-and-on through one's life?

nice twist but "once and for all" is not how you answered. You just threw in a conditonal. "as long as". You constantly attacked my opinion saying it was works based and conditional and you didn't like conditional.

My answer... it can be on or off. It def is not a once and for all as that is OSAS. You cannot be justified before God while in sin. That is the very nature of justification. RIGHT STANDING! You cannot be in right standing relationship wise while in sin. Justification/Gods consideration of being righteous in response to his Word given. We are judged in the end by our works and whether we did follow him and actually led by his Spirit. Current positional justification is about response to God' leading concerning what has been charged for you to do according to his will revealed. We are in covenant. When I fail my pledge and the covenant I have the right to make peace with God. REPENTANCE and asking for forgiveness. This restores me by his mercy which is because of his Grace upon the cross that he is mediator of the covenant and authority to forgive and power to lead and help me overcome IF I choose to follow/submit myself. In the end God judges our works faithful or not unto eternal life which he has promised to those who follow him. Salvation is a hope to receive. It is also realization known to someone who is walking by faith which is abiding. It is also seen as a complete promise/covenant to be attained by being given eternal life to the faithful. If you do his will as he did the Fathers WILL YOU ABIDE In HIM. There is not condemnation to those who are in Christ. Why? They are DOING his WILL and being led bythe Spirit of which the Spirit bears witness to.

You teach a forensic justification with a end time acquittal (once and for all)and then turn right around and give a "condition" in your last statement. You cannot have both!

[Socialite]

Lukey2447, I haven't changed my perspective since the time we started this thread. Not sure what even makes you say that. Maybe Pel was right about this "binary thinking."

I do believe our justification is positional, and is ONCE FOR ALL, providing you remain "in Christ." Me sinning in the next 60 seconds doesn't take me out of Christ either. Me remaining in sin, unrepented (turning away from God in my life) will eventually.

We are judged in the end by our works and whether we did follow him and actually led by his Spirit

We are indeed judged in the end. But our justification and reality of salvation is now, and in the present. Otherwise, the believer has no assurance.

Salvation is a hope to receive

Yes, it is... and I've received that Hope! Have you?

We are the Righteousness of Christ.

There is not condemnation to those who are in Christ. Why? They are DOING his WILL and being led bythe Spirit of which the Spirit bears witness to.

Generally, yes. But the condemnation would only be an issue if someone felt condemned because of sin.

Are justification is not typically "on and off." The courthouse of Jehovah isn't filled with appeals. The accuser of the brothers has already received what he asked for, and Jesus took our penalty. Our job is just to remain in Him, to be faithful to Him and to continue walking.

We aren't anxious about not being His. We know we are His. Our justification and pardon are not a future event -- they are here, right now. We have been adopted, we bear His name, we have been "born again" and "recreated." We are no longer Adam's family, but Christ's. There is no undoing this --- unless one becomes reprobate and disowns his place in the Father's house.

My obedience isn't to save myself. My obedience is because I am saved, because I am a "slave to Christ," his Son, etc... if I continue acting as one who is not saved, if I deny the reality of what Christ has done, then we read something like Heb 10:13.

[Socialite]

Romans 5

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. 13 Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break. 14 Still, everyone died—from the time of Adam to the time of Moses—even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come. 15 But there is a great difference between Adam’s sin and God’s gracious gift. For the sin of this one man, Adam, brought death to many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of forgiveness to many through this other man, Jesus Christ. 16 And the result of God’s gracious gift is very different from the result of that one man’s sin. For Adam’s sin led to condemnation, but God’s free gift leads to our being made right with God, even though we are guilty of many sins. 17 For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of righteousness, for all who receive it will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.

18 Yes, Adam’s one sin brings condemnation for everyone, but Christ’s one act of righteousness brings a right relationship with God and new life for everyone. 19 Because one person disobeyed God, many became sinners. But because one other person obeyed God, many will be made righteous.

20 God’s law was given so that all people could see how sinful they were. But as people sinned more and more, God’s wonderful grace became more abundant. 21 So just as sin ruled over all people and brought them to death, now God’s wonderful grace rules instead, giving us right standing with God and resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[Acoustic]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I think that's important so people don't carry the weight of condemnation when they do sin.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I do not think Paul was saying that, though. I think he meant the condemnation that DOES come when we sin can be averted by learning to walk after the Spirit and not to sin!

Seriously, does this not seem more victorious? Add to that the fact that Paul did not say we could not maintain a walk after the Spirit, regardless of how can or cannot. Potentially, it is there!

mfblume I think you miss the point regarding there being no condemnation when Christians sin. I forget the ref but there is a scripture that says there is NO condemnation in Christ. Condemnation is not just feeling bad or guilty it is referring to our position in Christ - our sin debt has been paid - you can no longer be condemned for it! Instead now we have Paul saying where there is sin GRACE abounds. The grace is what we received in place of being condemned.

Threads like this is the reason I love theology - not in any way to win an argument but the discussion of God's Word.

SDG

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

nice twist but "once and for all" is not how you answered. You just threw in a conditonal. "as long as". You constantly attacked my opinion saying it was works based and conditional and you didn't like conditional.
...

Luke47, with respect, this is how you end up failing to understand Socialite, at least as I see it.

You have this stern works based model of salvation. The only alternative that you appear to even be capable of seeing is the exact binary opposite of your own view.

Can't you understand that Socialite may actually agree with certain aspects of the "human responsibility" side of the coin? Just because Socialite doesn't agree with how far your radical position goes, it doesn't have to follow that Soc is as radically oriented in the opposite direction.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Luke47, with respect, this is how you end up failing to understand Socialite, at least as I see it.

You have this stern works based model of salvation. The only alternative that you appear to even be capable of seeing is the exact binary opposite of your own view.

Can't you understand that Socialite may actually agree with certain aspects of the "human responsibility" side of the coin? Just because Socialite doesn't agree with how far your radical position goes, it doesn't have to follow that Soc is as radically oriented in the opposite direction.

I understand your point but I think you miss mine. I feel he is playing both sides of the fence. Even what you just said is seriously flawed. The work is Christ empowered(grace) by his Spirit. It is not MY work. It is HIS to do and to follow IF I choose. I know Socialite agrees on certain concepts but he also fails to be consistent. As any person on the OSAS would call his last post WORKS BASED LEGALISM. Yet because I have different view to him I AM THE WORKS BASED. Sorry know this whole argument all to well. You have doctrines that "it is hard to lose salvation" "easy to lose salvation" and "can't lose salvation" with a few variances in between. I cannot agree with his position as it is contradictory to way to many things. Narrow road is not hard to lose. My biggest difference is with it is easy is IMO God looks in the end at the sum of your work and your current position(justification) affects part of that. You are still in covenant/status with God but it can be bad or good. You cannot have lukewarm and "hard to lose." That is why reformed teachers HAVE TO ARGUE they where never saved in the first place. You cannot have people doing good with endurance etc... and lost and with total reprobate status about to be cast on you if you don't turn back to your first love and repent and have "it is hard to lose". Rev 2 church of Ephesus. The judgment is about the SUM of your works. Justification is a short view of current standing concerning the work God has given you. In the end god will judge you worthy or not according to your faith(response) in total.