But, you know what I meant. As far as anything significant towards attaining righteousness is concerned, we cannot improve ourselves.
It was in the context of notofworks' words:
Quote:
And I also really, really struggle with your theology that one can improve oneself and thereby, receive this "gift."
Why did you not say something when he said it?
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
But, you know what I meant. As far as anything significant towards attaining righteousness is concerned, we cannot improve ourselves.
It was in the context of notofworks' words:
Why did you not say something when he said it?
OK.
Hey, notofworks! Speak for yourself! Seriously!
But actually, yes I knew what you meant, and, in terms of the theology you both accept (while arguing -- endlessly! -- over the details), you are both right. You can't, on your own, be good enough for God to save you from His wrath. God insists on perfection. Any slip-up, no matter how tiny it might seem to us (in our limited minds), is punishable by death.
But, of course, that is exactly what bothers me about your theology. I summarized it in my list of things you believe (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...207#post807207). Only the logic of faith allows you to believe both 1) God will punish people for not doing the impossible and 2) God is just. (Providing a way to escape that punishment doesn't help much, considering the small percentage of us that will hear it, and understand it, and believe it, and obey it, and keep it till the end of our lives.)
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
But actually, yes I knew what you meant, and, in terms of the theology you both accept (while arguing -- endlessly! -- over the details), you are both right. You can't, on your own, be good enough for God to save you from His wrath. God insists on perfection. Any slip-up, no matter how tiny it might seem to us (in our limited minds), is punishable by death.
But, of course, that is exactly what bothers me about your theology. I summarized it in my list of things you believe (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...207#post807207). Only the logic of faith allows you to believe both 1) God will punish people for not doing the impossible and 2) God is just. (Providing a way to escape that punishment doesn't help much, considering the small percentage of us that will hear it, and understand it, and believe it, and obey it, and keep it till the end of our lives.)
I'm going to answer Bloomer's last heretical post to me, but I need to wait until I have a spare 4 hours or so. His flippin' posts are so flippin' long, I have to read them in sections and then answer when I've got the day off. I think he might be using the filibuster method.
Right now my life is centered around 12:30pm (my time). That, for you ungodly non-golf, non-Tiger fans, is when The Masters coverage comes on.
I'm going to answer Bloomer's last heretical post to me, but I need to wait until I have a spare 4 hours or so.
Heretical? What is heretical, or something like it (lol), is you claiming I believe we can earn salvation and we can improve on ourselves.
Like I said, righteousness is a gift and is REQUIRED! So what is wrong about the Holy Ghost being a gift and required?
You now are hereby granted three raspberries.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Heretical? What is heretical, or something like it (lol), is you claiming I believe we can earn salvation and we can improve on ourselves.
Like I said, righteousness is a gift and is REQUIRED! So what is wrong about the Holy Ghost being a gift and required?
You now are hereby granted three raspberries.
You said it Mike, come on! Own it! I connected the dots of:
1) Tongues are required for salvation;
2) You couldn't speak in tongues for quite a while;
3) You "let go of sin";
4) And because you did, you spoke in tongues.
Sounds like to me you improved yourself and got saved because of it. Where am I wrong? Which one of those four points isn't true?
By my calculations, it's already Sunday, your time, and like the bible says, "If it can't be done by midnight, it can't be done!" You need to go to bed instead of fighting with me!
You said it Mike, come on! Own it! I connected the dots of:
1) Tongues are required for salvation;
2) You couldn't speak in tongues for quite a while;
3) You "let go of sin";
4) And because you did, you spoke in tongues.
Sounds like to me you improved yourself and got saved because of it. Where am I wrong? Which one of those four points isn't true?
By my calculations, it's already Sunday, your time, and like the bible says, "If it can't be done by midnight, it can't be done!" You need to go to bed instead of fighting with me!
I honestly do not believe you realize what salvation by works is about. You consider the term "action" and immediately think of salvation by works, when that is only speaking about actions that merit righteousness without any reliance solely upon the work of the cross.
If you believe baptism and Spirit infilling being necessary are salvation by works, regardless of the all-important factor about whether or not they merit righteousness without reliance on the cross, then you contradict yourself in demand repentance and faith.
You are not reading what we are saying. Repentance is no less an act than baptism.
But I have said it enough that someone wanting to know what I believe would have gotten it by now.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
I connected the dots of:
Hybrid Mode
