Hate Of Reformed Theology

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[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I think it actually boils down to whether or not it is possible to maintain a walk after the Spirit that is mentioned in Gal 5 -- so long as we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Paul did not say this could not be maintained. Though we make mistakes, theoretically, due to what Paul said, it seems it is possible to maintain this walking after the Spirit and never sin again. Though sin is still in us as a moral force, walking after the Spirit (which is dependence on the Spirit) keeps sin dormant, so to speak. It is such a temptation for us to take things into our own hands and thereby cease walking after the Spirit. In such times we will slip into sinful activity. The propensity is in us to take things into our own hands. I actually think that this is inbred in us because we ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.

So this goes back to the question, then, you believe it's possible (and expected) that a Christian be sinless after they've come to faith in Christ?

Paul says, if you walk in the Spirit you live a life pleasing to God. But not all the time do we all walk in the Spirit. We have moments where our flesh gets the best of us.

I really want to know if you believe in triumphalism or not.



I

did not say "real" Christians will not sin. But rather ANY Christian can change their expectations to sin instead to believing we are above sin due to the reasoning Paul provided in Romans 6.

I agree with that.

I think it primarily is a problem of us expecting to sin. And Paul removes that expectation to trade it for expectation to not sin by walking us through the reasoning of how we have been raised above the domination of sin through our unions to Christ's death. Only when he walks us through this can we begin to grasp our actual position and potential. So it is enlightened Christians who can cease sinning. Not "real" Christians.

I disagree that this was Paul's aim in Romans 6. The message of Grace was so forceful --- we are no longer positionally viewed by God as sinners. We are seen through the atoning work of Jesus. Positionally, we are no longer sinners. But just as all of creation, including us, is waiting for that final day of redemption, this is a perfect example of "already, not yet" Pauline eschatology.

Bottom line: there are no Christians without sin. I think that's important so people don't carry the weight of condemnation when they do sin. And perfectionism expectations yields that. I can encourage people "walk in the Spirit" and not "fulfill the lusts of the flesh" and still tell them that " if you sin... you have an advocate." I believe this was Paul's words as well

I do not doubt their sincerity. But ALL intellectuals have a temptation of enjoying brain candy in the issue. It is just that some groups emphasize the intellectual exercises that can be experienced in theology than others. I think of the Roman Catholics who, seemingly solely out of intellectual reasoning, arrive at the conclusions they hold regarding Mary being sinless, etc. Their reasoning seems to make sense, but the bible never flatly stated what they claim are natural conclusions.

Without getting into Maryology, or the RCC, I still find your comment unfounded. Undoubtedly, some view theology itself as brain candy -- OP, Calvinists, Arminians, Catholics, Jews, Mormons, JW's, Atheists, etc You name it.