You said if God were to lie, then He wouldn't be God.
The whole subject of "God lying" ignores
the meaning of Dabar; it's like asking the wrong Q.
Yes, if God were to lie, He would not be God.
God cannot lie, imo, for the simple reason,
"Dabar," but since that will not suffice for you,
God cannot lie because He has absolute faith
in everything He says; is an incomplete answer.
...
As for 1 John 5:14
If you are truly christian anything that you are asking will be within his will, because your wants would be likened to that of Gods and not worldly wants to begin with.
Then anyone who asks God for something and doesn't get it is not a true Christian. Thanks. I'll be sure and tell my mom and dad that they are not true Christians. They wanted a worldly thing: for their son, my brother, to be healed of cancer.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Then anyone who asks God for something and doesn't get it is not a true Christian. Thanks. I'll be sure and tell my mom and dad that they are not true Christians. They wanted a worldly thing: for their son, my brother, to be healed of cancer.
Please don't take offense to this I truly mean nothing harmful to you.
No, I did not say that, how would the healing of another individual be worldly? I’m not saying if you’re not receiving things that you aren’t Christian. However you have to realize aside from your thoughts and feelings towards the situation that your brother lived his life and he had his own choices and decisions to make and you nor your parents have any way of knowing everything that was going on between him, God, and what have you. You told me once before that your parents and brother were devout Christians and that your Brother had a family and everything… I don’t know the whole story so I’m not going to delve into it but you told me they were Christian… If this is true then it is better for your brother than you can possibly conceive and blaming God for his death won’t change anything but your own path and frankly is quite selfish, I understand he had a family to take care of but yet again life is short and full of troubles and that is a test if I have ever seen one. No one deserves that, but such is the way of life and of the destroyer and there are billions of people that have walked the face of the earth that have went through something of the sort if not thousands of times worse, and that’s what happens when Satan is allowed to reign over the earth. If what you said was incorrect and he was not Christian, you have to come to the acceptance of what happened because law is law and he had his choices and he made them. (Went through this with the death of my Grandmother I know where she went and why she went there and it brings me to tears almost anytime I think about it), if you cannot come to accept that then you are doomed to live in that mindset and anything that anybody else says will not reach you because you have already made up your mind. I like you Timmy, even though we don’t see eye to eye on nary a thing I still feel there is a mutual respect between us and that we have had some pretty good conversations. However I will say that you know my belief and that I know yours. You know good and well that I would not do anything to personally offend or attack you, I’m not the one who wrote the bible, I just follow its teachings and contrary to what I would like to say and how my emotions play into it that doesn’t change the fact of what I believe is law the same way we can want to float around all day and we aren’t all floating around due to gravity. I didn’t choose to be created but I was, even from a worldly perspective by that logic I could get angry at my parents for birthing me. I have to make the choice of what I do, not anyone else and it’s a common theme amongst almost every religion. Thousands of years of human expansion and technology but we still have thousands of years old beliefs…. There has to be something more to that than some grand conspiracy scheme perpetrated perfectly by all civilizations since the beginning of time.
Im saying that it works as such,
Those who were baptized in Jesus name are now adopted out of Satans grasp into Gods.
Those who walk by Gods commandments walk by his will and are guided by the word.
With the infilling of the spirit we are further guided and helped, show, and revealed many things.
After all of this you pretty much have a complete transformation of the former self, you are now a child of God and you walk according to his will.
Now at this point when you pray undoubtedly and ask expecting to get what you are asking for then it will be received.
Otherwise any prayers outside of that realm are usually shallow and for personal gain not taking into account the feelings, thoughts, and lives of everyone else, or out of a moment of fear when something happens and the person is backed into a corner and knows of nothing else to do but any other time they would rely on themselves, or simply to disprove God by asking show yourself or prove yourself to me without taking to themselves to seek him out by studying and actually looking in all aspects. Not saying that this is all prayers that come from unbelievers but that’s mostly it.
Last edited by Dalton; 08-30-2012 at 10:54 AM.
Reason: Grammatical Errors and such, pfft
Please don't take offense to this I truly mean nothing harmful to you.
No, I did not say that, how would the healing of another individual be worldly? I’m not saying if you’re not receiving things that you aren’t Christian. However you have to realize aside from your thoughts and feelings towards the situation that your brother lived his life and he had his own choices and decisions to make and you nor your parents have any way of knowing everything that was going on between him, God, and what have you. You told me once before that your parents and brother were devout Christians and that your Brother had a family and everything… I don’t know the whole story so I’m not going to delve into it but you told me they were Christian… If this is true then it is better for your brother than you can possibly conceive and blaming God for his death won’t change anything but your own path and frankly is quite selfish, I understand he had a family to take care of but yet again life is short and full of troubles and that is a test if I have ever seen one. No one deserves that, but such is the way of life and of the destroyer and there are billions of people that have walked the face of the earth that have went through something of the sort if not thousands of times worse, and that’s what happens when Satan is allowed to reign over the earth. If what you said was incorrect and he was not Christian, you have to come to the acceptance of what happened because law is law and he had his choices and he made them. (Went through this with the death of my Grandmother I know where she went and why she went there and it brings me to tears almost anytime I think about it), if you cannot come to accept that then you are doomed to live in that mindset and anything that anybody else says will not reach you because you have already made up your mind. I like you Timmy, even though we don’t see eye to eye on nary a thing I still feel there is a mutual respect between us and that we have had some pretty good conversations. However I will say that you know my belief and that I know yours. You know good and well that I would not do anything to personally offend or attack you, I’m not the one who wrote the bible, I just follow its teachings and contrary to what I would like to say and how my emotions play into it that doesn’t change the fact of what I believe is law the same way we can want to float around all day and we aren’t all floating around due to gravity. I didn’t choose to be created but I was, even from a worldly perspective by that logic I could get angry at my parents for birthing me. I have to make the choice of what I do, not anyone else and it’s a common theme amongst almost every religion. Thousands of years of human expansion and technology but we still have thousands of years old beliefs…. There has to be something more to that than some grand conspiracy scheme perpetrated perfectly by all civilizations since the beginning of time.
Im saying that it works as such,
Those who were baptized in Jesus name are now adopted out of Satans grasp into Gods.
Those who walk by Gods commandments walk by his will and are guided by the word.
With the infilling of the spirit we are further guided and helped, show, and revealed many things.
After all of this you pretty much have a complete transformation of the former self, you are now a child of God and you walk according to his will.
Now at this point when you pray undoubtedly and ask expecting to get what you are asking for then it will be received.
Otherwise any prayers outside of that realm are usually shallow and for personal gain not taking into account the feelings, thoughts, and lives of everyone else, or out of a moment of fear when something happens and the person is backed into a corner and knows of nothing else to do but any other time they would rely on themselves, or simply to disprove God by asking show yourself or prove yourself to me without taking to themselves to seek him out by studying and actually looking in all aspects. Not saying that this is all prayers that come from unbelievers but that’s mostly it.
"If you are truly christian anything that you are asking will be within his will, because your wants would be likened to that of Gods and not worldly wants to begin with."
So, you are retracting this?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I am not, I have seen people being raised from the dead on the table due to fervent prayer. I work in a hospital and didn't come into apostolic belief until these kind of things were happening when a man I work with told me about it and in fact I was pretty against it, I hated Christianity and Christians to the point of desecration and destruction of those involved with it, it takes a whollllllee lot to get someone with that kind of attitude to turn, and seeing miracles for myself and applying what I read to life was what did it.
What I am saying is this in a Roundabout way... Were your parents filled with Holy Spirit and do they walk according to his will and were they baptized in Jesus name... did your brother do the same? What sort of state was his life in, not saying any of this was the cause just that these are all things that should be taken into account. It may sound cruel but if we want to delve into doctrine and every bodies role we have to break every aspect of every person involved and study and apply whats written.
If he had made his decisions and lived his life and fulfilled his purpose, or the opposite if he had lived to a point and there was no chance of him fulfilling his purpose there's not much anyone could do anyway because it was his time. Did your parentsask with 100% faith, did you? Or was it all said in mourning without fervent fervent expectation?
There are too many variables in that situation that you would have to basically be God to know truly what was going on with everyone involved. It didn't just involve the 4 or however many immediate members of you, it goes on to tie in with everyone he knew and all sorts of other things that could have affected the outcome of his life and the outcome of that prayer.
Truly man it's painful stuff, and I don't really like having these conversations with people.... however it is a reality (to me if you prefer) and I will stand by it.
I am not, I have seen people being raised from the dead on the table due to fervent prayer. I work in a hospital and didn't come into apostolic belief until these kind of things were happening when a man I work with told me about it and in fact I was pretty against it, I hated Christianity and Christians to the point of desecration and destruction of those involved with it, it takes a whollllllee lot to get someone with that kind of attitude to turn, and seeing miracles for myself and applying what I read to life was what did it.
What I am saying is this in a Roundabout way... Were your parents filled with Holy Spirit and do they walk according to his will and were they baptized in Jesus name... did your brother do the same? What sort of state was his life in, these are all things that should be taken into account. It may sound cruel but if we want to delve into doctrine and every bodies role we have to break every aspect of every person involved and study and apply whats written.
If he had made his decisions and lived his life and fulfilled his purpose, or the opposite if he had lived to a point and there was no chance of him fulfilling his purpose there's not much anyone could do anyway because it was his time. Did your parents did not ask with 100% faith, did you? Or was it all said in mourning without fervent fervent expectation?
There are too many variables in that situation that you would have to basically be God to know truly what was going on with everyone involved. It didn't just involve the 4 or however many immediate members of you, it goes on to tie in with everyone he knew and all sorts of other things that could have affected the outcome of his life and the outcome of that prayer.
Truly man it's painful stuff, and I don't really like having these conversations with people.... however it is a reality (to me if you prefer) and I will stand by it.
My parents, my brother, and I were not Oneness Apostolic. We were Spirit-filled (or so we thought) believers. Assembly of God. Baptized in the "titles". We were Trinnies! So does that explain it? Do you have to deserve the gifts God gives you? Have to have all your ducks in a row? Guess (correctly) which doctrines and practices to follow?
So you are standing by your statement. And you do believe that my parents were not "truly Christian". There is no way around it. And that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
My parents, my brother, and I were not Oneness Apostolic. We were Spirit-filled (or so we thought) believers. Assembly of God. Baptized in the "titles". We were Trinnies! So does that explain it? Do you have to deserve the gifts God gives you? Have to have all your ducks in a row? Guess (correctly) which doctrines and practices to follow?
So you are standing by your statement. And you do believe that my parents were not "truly Christian". There is no way around it. And that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion.
When I read trinnies, I was totally thinking trannies and took me like 2 minutes to comprehend what that meant lol.
I don't understand why it's so hard to know what to follow and what not to... especially if you truly loved God you would WANT to do all of those things in the first place and the commandments would not be a burden.
Yes you do have to have all of your ducks in a row. You do have to buckle down, You do have to read, You do have to study, You do have to pray, You do have to Fast, You do have to have the Holy spirit with the evidence thereof and the baptism in the name, that's what I believe and that there is no other way around it.
I believe most important is the baptism by water and spirit the fine print. Hair cuts, secular music, and the general ilk on the other hand I believe are not salvational issues rather doctrines we need to work towards perfection, continuing them all knowing in our heart that its a sin however makes it a salvational issue, but slipping up or not understanding isn't part of it.
Those who are ignorant of things without being shown the right way are shown mercy.
When I read trinnies, I was totally thinking trannies and took me like 2 minutes to comprehend what that meant lol.
I don't understand why it's so hard to know what to follow and what not to... especially if you truly loved God you would WANT to do all of those things in the first place and the commandments would not be a burden.
Yes you do have to have all of your ducks in a row. You do have to buckle down, You do have to read, You do have to study, You do have to pray, You do have to Fast, You do have to have the Holy spirit with the evidence thereof and the baptism in the name, that's what I believe and that there is no other way around it.
I believe most important is the baptism by water and spirit the fine print. Hair cuts, secular music, and the general ilk on the other hand I believe are not salvational issues rather doctrines we need to work towards perfection, continuing them all knowing in our heart that its a sin however makes it a salvational issue, but slipping up or not understanding isn't part of it.
Those who are ignorant of things without being shown the right way are shown mercy.
It's normal to feel that you have found the right way, and that everyone else will find that way, too, if they are honestly searching and studying. I get that. It's normal, but wrong. You have no basis for claiming that the way you have found is the only right way. Zero. And neither do Trinnies. (That's hilarious, btw, about your first reading of that word! )
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
It's normal to feel that you have found the right way, and that everyone else will find that way, too, if they are honestly searching and studying. I get that. It's normal, but wrong. You have no basis for claiming that the way you have found is the only right way. Zero. And neither do Trinnies. (That's hilarious, btw, about your first reading of that word! )
I should have added;
IMO!
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
And, you should not have added to, or misconstrued Scripture.
The faith you (left out) are discussing, absolute faith, without a doubt,
1) just is not the faith that was being exercised, 2) Was not in God's will anyway, so it wouldn't have mattered, or 3) was illuminated to you in that episode. Or, someone was illuminated.
It is easy to assume that all those "rewards" just naturally come with
salvation, when they do not. One can enter glory blind, naked, and clueless.
It seems a harsh way to learn this, but God knows best, and it is easy to see how this possibly drove several people from possibly a heretical church.
I don't know, of course, but I do know that God answers prayer, prayed in genuine faith; i just don't personally know anyone with genuine faith, at least not in all areas. you ever notice how a person's faith might be strong for one thing, but not another? We are talking about faith that takes a while to develop, it is not just given to one. When one has that kind of faith, they would prolly also be much better informed about what to pray for, also.
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