The doctrine of subsequence

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It seems the context of this verse indicates Paul is talking about the church, meaning, there were certain elements in the church causing trouble (the Judaizers, who were 'of the flesh') and because of this conflict between 'flesh and spirit' the church could not 'do the things' that they wanted to. Ie the church could not function properly because of the conflict.

Please provide the IMMEDIATE context of which you speak.

Originally Posted by Esaias

If total submission is not possible prior to a second work of sanctification, then those who have been regenerated and baptised have not in fact repented. There can be no 'partial obedience' or 'partial submission'. The great commandment is to love God with all you have. If one does this, one is fully in the will of God, entirely consecrated to God, set apart entirely to God. 'With all thine heart, mind, soul, and strength' leaves no part out, thus 'entirely'. If the ENTIRE heart, soul, mind, and strength is loving God, then the person loves God FULLY, they are submitted FULLY.

Failure to submit FULLY, to love God FULLY, is a clear breaking of the Greatest Commandment, and is SIN. A person who is a 'believer' but is not thus FULLY submitted to God, is not repentant, for they have not repented of their sin of breaking the First and Greatest Commandment.

If what you say is correct, then one does not repent fully until one has got the 'second blessing'. But if one has not repented fully, one is not SAVED, one is not truly a Christian, one is only deluded with a false hope. Thus, if what you say is correct, one is not a Christian until they get this second experience.

I do not see how it can be otherwise. Either one may be saved and regenerated and justified while STILL in rebellion to God, without repentance, or one is fully submitted to God in repentance, loving God with all they have, which according to your definition is 'entire sanctification'.

Using your definition of entire sanctification, brother, it seems that the bible indicates such 'entire sanctification' (as you defined it) happens in initial conversion (or at least ought to happen then), and is not a necessarily 'second' work.

If as you say a person is fully submitted at the point of conversion and there is no further need of submission then please explain why Paul wrote-


Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Why did James write-

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


If they had already done this why does he encourage them to do it again?

Also you are confusing repentance and submission. Repentance is required in order to be saved and is a prerequisite to be saved and this is obvious from scripture but where is total submission required at the point of salvation? Not saying that it is not in the Bible I don't think have ever read that part.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sinners are 'in the flesh', and have the 'carnal mind'. Those who have the spirit are not in the flesh, and have the spiritual mind, and are 'spiritual men', according to the same chapter.

A person who is 'not subject to the law of God' is a sinner, in need of repentance. It is strange to call a genuinely regenerated child of God 'not subject to the law of God' and at 'enmity against God', don't you think?

The more I look at the Scripture, the more it seems that sanctification goes hand in hand with regeneration, justification, 'conversion', 'salvation', or whatever term one wishes to apply. It is all by faith, it is all by grace, and it is all made possible by the cross.

Therefore, there is no need for a 'second' work. It's all available NOW to 'whosoever will'.

You or Paul one are mistaken because you say that a christian can't be carnal but Paul say the exact opposite:



1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Four times Paul specificly says that these Christians (brethren, babes in Christ) are still carnal!!!

Paul himself also clearly mentions a complete work of sanctification fore christians-

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 5:25 Brethren, pray for us.