born of water

[Originalist]

when one continually creates straw men to debate rather than answering the points that have actually been presented, it is a sign that they know they are losing an argument. And Sean, you are the master of the straw man argument.

Straw man no. 1......

So if the Pope or any other Catholic gets the Holy Ghost, yet never changes his/their beliefs, is he/they your brother or sister in Christ(even without water baptism in Jesus name)?
You do realize the Charismatic movement is real dont you?

Please note how you ignored what I clearly stated.....

I count those who received less than perfect immersions, but were still done based on their faith and repentance, to have obeyed me.

The so called "Charismatic Movement" in the Catholic Church is not a move of the Holy Spirit. They do not base their relationship with God on faith and repentance. They are a works based salvation cult. Furthermore, they do not immerse. They are using these manifestations of "tongues" and other "gifts" as proof texts that God endorses the "mother church". To compare what is happening there to what might happen in an Assembly of God church demonstrates that you are either ignorant or insincere. At an AoG church people seeking the Holy Ghost have responded to the preaching of the cross and the Lordship of Christ. They are turning from dead works to serve the Living God.


Straw man no. 2......

Sean: "God only gave them the Holy Ghost to help them see their need for re-baptism. They are only a sinner with the Holy Ghost"


Exactly, otherwise baptism is an unnecessary ritual, as symbolic as animal sacrifices. That is what you think of water baptism bro.

Why lie to yourself, much less those on AFF? You know that I view baptism as being linked to repentance and is done "in order that your sins might be forgiven". My contention is that it is 99% a matter between God and the one being baptized and can still be effective even if the baptizer makes an error. You make it 99% between the one being baptized and the one baptizing thus cutting God out of the picture. You further separate the name of Jesus from Jesus himself and base all forgiveness based on a priest's invocation instead of on the sinner's faith and repentance. He further degrades the regenerating power of the Holy Ghost (which brings with him the new birth) as nothing more than an illuminating experience meant to guide only. Pure heresy. He never actually commented on the verses I quoted.


Straw man no. 3.....

Nope, I am just discussing this with a wishy washy/ compromising ASSEMBLICOSTAL that is divulging himself in trying to minimize the essentiality of water baptism in Pentecost.
My beliefs are the fact....Baptism in the name of Jesus is FOR the remission of sins and the water is only effective in the process when the name of Jesus is spoken verbally. (BTW...what I just said about every sin hanging over the folks that are NOT baptized properly came from Marvin Hicks, unopposed by his brethren in the 70s'...I have the tapes, you are not telling the truth about Urshan)

Sean, once again, is either willfully lying or is ignorant as to what the AoG teaches. He knows full well I could never hold license with the AoG believing what I do. He also continues to lie about my beliefs as well concerning baptism. He knows I affirm it is indeed for(in order that) the remission of sins. He also claims that baptism is only effective when the name of Jesus is invoked by the baptizer, in spite of the fact that those receiving baptism invoked the name, and in spite of the fact that God validated the imperfect baptisms of many by bestowing the like precious gift on them.

As for Urshan, I have read his quotes right here on AFF. He was right in line with many other early Apostolics, like G.T. Haywood, who considered Spirit filled Trinitarians to be brothers in Christ.

As for David Wilkerson, he was declared and made righteous when the righteous One baptized him with his own Spirit.