Original Sin

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Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Mike

I am glad you brought this passage up, because it is one that I think you miss part of.

When we died we are absent from the body and present with the Lord.

2Co 5:6-8 KJV Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (7) (For we walk by faith, not by sight (8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Bodies, immortal or mortal alike, are earth-suits, really. If we are absent from body and present with the Lord upon death, we are in Heaven. That means we do not require bodies to be in heaven. Bodies are not made for heaven. Heaven is not a physical place where one needs a physical body to interact with it. You cannot show me a map of the physical universe and point at certain coordinates in the physical realm and say this is where Heaven is.

Agreed.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

And we are withou
t any body whatsoever until the resurrection. hence, we are without a body with the Lord. When we are absent from the body and with the Lord, we are absent of any body whatsoever. Therefore, the resurrection must occur, for we were not put int Heaven to rule, but on earth.

We have another tabernacle one not made with hands that is eternal in the heavens.

Peter also speaks of leaving this tabernacle (body) behind at his death.

2Pe 1:13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
2Pe 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
2Pe 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

Where as Paul says we have another tabernacle prepared not made with hands in the heavens.

So if this body is like an earth suit for our soul, and I agree. And we have a heavenly suit, prepared for us upon our death. In which we shall for ever be with the Lord. Why would we desire to return to earth?

The body from Heaven is not a body we get for heaven. It is a physical body just as Christ's was when he arose from the dead. It is simply saying the body from heaven is not from earth, but it's still a body.

When Paul said we're absent from the body and present with the Lord atr death he meant ANY body. We're absent of ANY body.

And the body from heaven not made with hands is the same spiritual and physical body mentioned in 1 Cor 15 that is the old earthly one changed and altered to be immortal, as Christ's was when He resurrected.

My thoughts, to coin your phrase. I believe the kingdom of God today is the kingdom that will last for eternity. I know that is hard for some to grasp. But we have the fulfillment of God spirit available to whosoever will. Mankind as a whole has dominion over the earth, which was never lost or taken away. We have the ability to destroy this earth, or preserve this earth.

It is the same Kingdom, but no where near what it shall be when the resurrection occurs. We have the EARNEST right now. By no means the fullness.

As Christians we are to pray and actively bring the kingdom of God to earth as it is in heaven, as Christ instructed us. One the one hand Christians have gravely failed in this, for we have not been actively been involved in feeding the hungry, ministering to the sick, the orphans, widows, and homeless on the scale we are commanded to do. But on the other hand Christians have influenced the world for the better, anyone that does not see this must be blinded by the negative aspects of the world as passed down by our news media. I contend that the world is far better than we give ourselves credit for as far as the influence of Christianity in the world.

That being said, I for one believe in a eternal dwelling place with the Lord in a place we call heaven. If Jesus said thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven, there must be a heaven.

As scripture says, "it is appointed unto men to die then the judgment" we all will die. But as Paul says "today judgment begins at the house of God", those in the kingdom of God have been judged already, and pass from this life to eternal life.

Show me scripture where we will stay in heaven forevermore.

God made man for the earth to rule as the image of God in heaven Who rules. It is a common but false tradition to say we'll be in heaven forever. The scriptures do not teach that. God put man on the earth to rule the physical.