New Birth

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

This. ^

In the same way the Oneness Pentecostal definition of "New Birth" is based upon a gross misunderstanding of the John 3 exchange between Jesus and Nicodemus.

There are 4 huge holes in their doctrine.

1. In that exchange Jesus did not once mention tongues or baptism yet somehow OP's interpret "water" as baptism and "Spirit" as tongues. He did, however, mention variants of the word "belief" EIGHT TIMES.

But the entirety of the word must be considered. He did not even hardly want to talk to Nicodemus about the issue. Nicodemus kept pushing it. And Jesus did not preach this publicly, but in the night since Nic did not want to be known to dialogue with Jesus. You see this teaching no where in His public ministry.

But the deal is the Lord said the manner to believe would be explained by the apostles. And we would believe on Him through THEIR WORD. Their word was not made known first until Acts.

2. I struggle to comprehend how Oneness Pentecostals can use the passage to push three-step soteriology when the baptism of Spirit wasn't available to Nicodemus at the time. Why would Jesus require something of Nicodemus that wasn't available?

Baptism of the Spirit was distinctly said to not be available after Jesus spoke of coming to Him for living water.

John 7:37-39 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. (38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)]

The same reason He spoke of it and it not yet being available in John 7 is why he did in John 3.

3. Jesus never asked Nicodemus to be born "again" of water and Spirit. He was already born of water (flesh). Jesus asked him to be born of the Spirit. THAT is the New Birth.

I disagree. The ONLY form of reference to water and Spirit in Acts was baptisms. Far too coincidental for Acts to repeatedly mention water and Spirit baptism after Jesus mentions water and Spirit in new birth if they're not the same thing.

4. We are born "again" when we believe. It is the Spirit that gives us life.

Incorrect. Why did Paul ask disciples if they received the Spirit SINCE THEY BELIEVED if belief gave it? Why did the Samaritans believe and get baptized and later have John and Peter come to see them Spirit filled if one gets it upon belief?