Love One Another and the Cross

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Originally Posted by shazeep

hmm, i'd say that it seems to me that "we're saved by loving people" is exactly what the passage at least suggests;

And that is salvation by works. Again, how is it not? Loving people is not just in word but in deed. And so a deed we commit makes us righteous and saves us. That says WE initiate the salvation, not God. WE move God to EARN righteousness by how much we just loved people and God. And so that removes the need for the work of the cross. That removes every verse from the bible that states He grants gives us His righteousness because Jesus took our sins. It removes the scriptures that says it's not of works of righteousness that we are saved but rather by His grace through faith. You are saying OUR works of righteousness in loving people are what saves us and makes us righteous.

That theology renders seeking first God's righteousness to mean we must try to mimic how good God is rather than BELIEVING God to grant us righteousness without doing one single good deed of love to achieve it.

Tit 3:5 KJV Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Mercy means we did not deserve it. But you are saying we DESERVE it by our deeds of love.

Rom 9:16 KJV So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Willing and running refer to exerting ourselves in some fashion to be right with God which describes righteousness. being right with God. We do good deeds of love that God weighs out and says it's enough to make us righteous, and POOF! we earned righteousness by works.

2Co 5:21 KJV For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Never does the word say we love people that we might become the righteousness of God. It always attributes holding righteousness to the exertion and work Jesus did on the cross. Jesus was made sin when He died on the cross so we might be made the righteousness of God.

Rom 5:17-19 KJV For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) (18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Where are our acts of love noted here as the cause for us being righteous? The cause for our sinfulness is Adam's act of disobedience. By the same token, the cause for our righteousness is one man's obedience, the obedience of Jesus Christ. I am not made righteous by MY act of obedience to a law that says love one another. I am made righteous by Jesus' act of obedience in the death of the cross.

After we read Jesus suffered due to OUR iniquity and He was bruised for OUR transgressions, we read:

Isa 53:11 KJV He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

His travail, not our acts of love, satisfied God when it came to the question of our acceptance or not. He justified us by His death on the cross in our places, and itw as not our acts of love that justified us.

You are espousing salvation by works.

although i grant you that "love God" comes first there--Love God and your neighbor; this is 9/10ths of the law and prophets if i quote that correctly. Although it is restated elsewhere as the whole of the law and prophets--or iow, the whole point, at least imo.

I agree! But no where does that bible say that saves us. That's the point you keep missing. Why does the simple thought that love is 9/10's of the mean move you to say our acts of love save us?

And if it stood alone, that would be one thing; but Little children, do not be deceived..., et al, many others, makes the case compelling. Don't misunderstand me though; can people come to Christ via an OP Acts 2:38 experience, genuinely? I think the testimonies of a couple new arrivals here at AFF, and the countless others that we are mostly all personal witness to, indicate that surely they can.

That implies there are many ways to come to God, and that's not true.

And at the other extreme, could someone reject the institutional concept of Christ--the First Son, possibly--and decide that their good works would suffice for salvation? Of course. I think even believers can fall into this. I don't think one could go very far down this path without being confronted with the fact that they owed a debt for past sins, and needed Christ for this, but i would insist upon Christ the Spirit here--iow their remorse would effect a change in them, in their heart, they would def be more humble, would not enter into that sin in the future, would be able to say "I'm sorry," and admit that sin to others...which is easy to preach, but hard to do.

I apologize for all the chain-yanking, btw, i am bad about tromping on other's egos, and i can't even claim ignorance

So, understand that i am still kind of working this out. A "bloodless" salvation is to be avoided;

But how is a bloodless gospel not avoided when our acts of love save us, and there is no indication whatsoever in such an explanation that the death of Christ makes atonement and saves us?

but a genuine "i am sorry, i won't do that again" and recognizing that that still does not atone for doing it the first time--relenting, and going to work in the vineyard anyway, after saying you would not, possibly--seems preferable to someone proclaiming Acts 2:38 from fear of hell, and then hypocritically flitting about saying Lord, Lord all the time.

I totally agree that when Acts 2:38 is obeyed out of a fear of hell, followed by an empty "Lord Lord" is the wrong way. I never said otherwise.

But acts of love do not save us. Yes, we sure do need them AFTER God GRANTS us righteousness, or we lose the righteousness God gave us freely. But the cause for granting us righteous is the act of love Jesus did on the cross. As far as salvation goes, and what is the root cause of receiving righteousness, JESUS, NOT WE, DID WHAT MAKES GOD HAPPY WITH US. the only work we can do, in Jesus' own words, is BELIEVE.

Joh 6:28-29 KJV Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Now, you usually say at this point that I am proposing a mouth-piece of confessions that saves, and that is absolutely not the case. Absolutely not! It is actual belief in our hearts THAT ONLY GOD CAN SEE, and we can only take people's word for which amounts to nothing, really.

So far as what your theology seems to propose, I believe this passage best teaches it is incorrect:

Rom 3:20-22 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight [color=red][You said love is 9/10ths of the law][/color=red]: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

You said loving each other is 9/10ths of the law. More technically it is 6/10ths, as the last six commandments regard love toward each other, and the first 4 regard love toward God. Righteousness of the LAW is the love the Law demanded. But Paul said those deeds of love toward one another do not justify us. There is a righteousness that is apart from the law.... it is called the righteousness OF GOD. God's personal righteousness. And He GRANTS it to us when we genuinely BELIEVE Christ's death and act of love toward us in dying in our places, is what actually saves us. And if we think OUR acts of love save us in as little as two cents' worth of earnings, we are lost. We have to believe Christ's act of love alone saves us.

I think this is why you cannot see Muslims lost because they deny the work of the cross. If I believed that MY acts of love SAVE ME, then I do not see a definite and absolute need for faith in the cross where Jesus' work saves, and I would think those who show acts of love can be saved by those acts without the cross, too.